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Colonialisation of the outer solar system


Macavity

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A bit of self-indulgent fantasy: But, notwithstanding the distance, I often wondered

about colonising bodies other than "difficult" Mars... e.g. in the outer solar system. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_the_outer_Solar_System

I never really knew the various radiation levels? Looks like Jupiter is a real no-go! :p

Nice to see some figures for the lethal REMs anyway. But then other planets may

be rather more hospitable... Saturn, Uranus, Neptune. The old "floating city" idea:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Floating_city_(science_fiction)

If "landing" is not a prerequisite (you don't strike a match!), a hydrogen (He) and

mehane atmosphere may not be too bad? Provided you are "corrosion proof", a

1bar, warm-ish Venus floater even? Airships (+ duck tape!) for future exploration?  ;)

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I actually think the money spent trying to conserve and save earth would be better spent investing into research and development of spacecraft to start an off-earth civilisation. I know it's a long way away but just my opinion

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I actually think the money spent trying to conserve and save earth would be better spent investing into research and development of spacecraft to start an off-earth civilisation. I know it's a long way away but just my opinion

I think we should learn how 'to conserve and save earth' before shooting off and destroying somewhere else. Just my opinion.

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I was mostly thinking about different technologies and approaches. No need to "dig in" to

avoid radiation. In (albeit alien) "1 Bar" atmospheres, no longer a critical need to fix leaks.

There is, of course, the problem of gaseous diffusion. For a while, I almost got excited!  ;)

But back to earth with a bump! General thought:

Forgive me if I see the (oft repeated) "just my opinion" statement as thought-stopping?

Sorry - But who else's opinion could / should it be? Mine? Everyone's? Right-thinkers? :p

Implicit, the daily, public, objection to even un-manned space exploration. I do hear you! 

But if we are allowed to speculate re. (unlikely) future science + technology? No more. :)

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Sorry, I'm still trying to picture "duck tape" as apposed to "duct tape" :).

Seriously though, the opening post is not regarding the moral dilema as to whether or not we should be trying to salvage planet earth but a hypothetical and I hope somewhat whimsical question as to whether there is a way to colonise elsewhere in the solar system?

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Couldn't agree more with the tenor of the original post.

Couldn't agree more regarding the redundancy of 'my opinion'.

Couldn't disagree more with the idea that we should give up on efforts to tidy up the mess we're making here, on Earth.

But, in the spirit of things, yes let us dream; let us imagine, think and discuss. I have high hopes for my grandsons' future.

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I actually think the money spent trying to conserve and save earth would be better spent investing into research and development of spacecraft to start an off-earth civilisation. I know it's a long way away but just my opinion

I bet lots of people thought that about the mad idea the Wright brothers had  ;)

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I like the idea of colonising somewhere, one of the moons of Saturn would be nice just for the view. As a first step I would look at an earth crossing/ near earth asteroid. Apophis is due to make a close pass in 2029,  how about jumping on as it flies past. :smiley:      

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With all this talk of colonization, always wondered why we never seemed interested in colonizing the moon. Sure, you'd have to build self-sustaining structures - but isn't that also the plan for Mars? You've got to crawl before you can walk so why not practice somewhere that's only 3 days away rather than Mars which is 7 months away. This must be a fantasy thread because we simply don't have the technology to cart along everything we'd need to get to the outer solar system and one of the big necessities is H2O (which weighs over 8 lbs. to the gallon). We all need quite a lot of water to survive so getiting a regular supply to the moon is probably doable but - Saturn, Uranus & Neptune? - forget about it. If you could somehow withstand the journey - and bring along everything you'd need for the trip - how long would you last once you got there?

Like the scientists say - the secret to life as we know it is water and that applies to us as well. Now if they could say beyond a shadow of doubt there's a crystal clear, potable source of H20 sitting somewhere out there just waiting to be exploited - then maybe. But you still have to go there to prove they were right. However, if they were wrong - well, it wouldn't be a very good day for the would-be colonists.

The moon on the other hand would be a logical first attempt and close enough to sustain the effort - a practice run so to speak. But NASA never seems interested in talking about the moon anymore - I wonder why?

Personally, I think we're getting a little bit "too big for our britches" with all this talk of Mars & beyond. Baby steps is what we should be taking if we ever expect to establish a permanent presence on another celestial body - of course that's just IMHO...  :smiley:  

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Sorry, I'm still trying to picture "duck tape" as apposed to "duct tape" :).

Seriously though, the opening post is not regarding the moral dilema as to whether or not we should be trying to salvage planet earth but a hypothetical and I hope somewhat whimsical question as to whether there is a way to colonise elsewhere in the solar system?

Just remember - YOU asked for it!

post-38438-0-89793000-1443586382_thumb.j

I'll just be running along now.....

Dave

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The human race has made a habit out of colonising places in order to exploit natural resources, normally resulting in the persecution, destruction or extinction of whatever or whoever was there before we turned up. I think we need to tread very carefully when we venture beyond our own planet. If there are lifeforms in the salts of Mars or in the subterranean seas of the moon of the gas giants do we have the right to interfere with their evolution or destroy them simply because we can't keep our own house in order?

The Star Trek Prime Directive wasn't wrong, but should perhaps have had a wider scope to include all lifeforms rather than only civilised ones :wink:

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Notwithstanding the radiation problems of Jupiter, an extended future on the (typically available) 

low gravity, satellite seems non-human-friendly. Osteoporosis, muscle wastage - Heart failure etc.

This favours an environment with some kind of gravity - Hence the "floating cities"? But it seems

we would then need both the main planet (for gravity) and moons (for water / ice... and Oxygen). 

Aside: I run a mile, when anyone mentions "evolution" these days... And, without Astronomy and

Physics, what would evolutionary biologists find to talk about? [teasing] Moreover, until I watched 

Brian Cox, I had not cottoned on to stuff about Eukaryotic cells (us) versus Prokaryotic "them". :p

Such seems to add a big divisor to the "Drake equation". But I find it genuinely hard to envisage

totally sterile environments from a human perspective. Despite my cleaning, "life" is everywhere!

I hope the universe is replete with bacteria. If I must be drawn... A no-brainer not to destroy it. :)

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This favours an environment with some kind of gravity - Hence the "floating cities"?

Wow, & all this time I thought there was gravity on the moon albeit not as much as on the earth. Should have known Neil Armstrong was just faking it when he was bouncing to & fro back in the 60’s. Just wait til next time I see my 8’th grade science teacher – he’s gonna have some explaining to do!  :mad:

As far as these floating cities, they must have some sort of “gravity machine” aboard? Wonder what they’d use to power it – dilithium crystals? My understanding is in orbit - humans (including all their gear) are completely weightless no matter if they’re orbiting Jupiter or some other smaller body much closer to home. Also, they must have a miniature version of this high-tech machinery to simulate gravity aboard the transport ship so those would-be adventurers could still walk once they finally reached their destination after years enroute.

It’s the moon that should be the staging area for future colonization and the lessons learned there could prove invaluable as we venture further out. And if your muscles begin to atrophy - or the ole’ ticker gets a little out of whack - just grab an economy seat on the “moon shuttle” & return to terra firma for some much needed R&R.

If I’m not mistaken, we’ve already proven this is possible but Jupiter? - forget about it! Sounds like a high budget fantasy flic to me. And the cost overruns? But I’m sure Warren Buffet & Donald Trump would be happy to cover the difference and perhaps the queen would be willing to hock the crown jewels to help get the project “off the ground”...  :grin:

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