new cameras.. not so new price's

[shirva]

Hi folks.. been looking through all the new post's on the new camera developments and yes im pleased at the intrest now being shown by atik and lodestar in video astronomy they are now realising that video astronomy is becoming more popular and moving some of there resources into our field. .

think the prices should be lowered in my opinion as the cameras have been manipulated by software to achieve video status. . We just need to see the affect with paul creating lodestar live, this has opened up a new enterprise for lodestar on the back of Paul great software.atik has followed suit and bringing there product forward as a contender to the lodestar range of cameras.

my question is why cant the prices be reduced now the market has opened up with more of these cameras being moved from there intend use at there launch I.e guide cameras.

I think they could drop the price and give us a break ..if people like paul and others never wrote the software most cameras would be sitting on warehouse shelves.

.

[riklaunim]

Everything starts at sensor price, then if it's a CCD then it needs some bigger amount of electronics (vs CMOS) which also costs. Micron base ASI/QHY camera are cheaper than Sony IMX based ASI/QHY cameras as some of those Micron sensors are very cheap.

[MrOD]

Electronics isn't that expensive currently. I am aware that everyone from business perspective want to earn they share but i bet the problem here is sales volume.

[Stu_2011]

Hi

Personally I think the prices are reasonable. Don't forget that Atik etc are very small companies with tiny volumes. They make niche products for a very small market.

Yes I suspect the bill of materials to RRP ratio is high but that's no different from other niche consumer products. Luxury watches are really bad, the companies make them for nothing (10s of €s) and sell them for hundreds or thousands.

People have to make a living and I bet if went to the Atik factory the car park wouldn't be full of expensive cars....

I don't feel ripped off when I buy Atik products and I will continue to buy their cameras......now do I buy a mono or colour Infinity this weekend???

Thanks

[shirva]

Yeah guys getting the point..were talking volume. .. the more sensors bought the cheaper you get them.. so now the sensors are being used in video astronomy tagged cameras, prices are still being held inflated..the freeware software is the biggest change from being guide cameras to video cameras.. the electronics aren't in usb cameras. You only need to look at camera boards ect being sold on aliexpress. I do agree the manufacturer has to make money to keep in business but I think in this case they are using video astronomy sales to offset costs a bit of a windfall bonus..

[Macavity]

For me, a pivotal observation (on CN): "the real star of the show is the software"?

And, as a sometime "scientific" programmer, *genuine* kudos for "Lodestar Live"!

Re-branding "classical imaging" cameras as "VA" was a great business idea? lol

Maybe I'm being a tad harsh on that one? Good that it adds to the possibilities...

When I first saw this new generation of bigger-chip, 16-bit (fair enough) cameras,

I imagined they were integrating cameras with on-board 16-bit processing... they

deliver data to the user via standard coax. Hence my comments of "game over"

re. my mere 8-bit Watec X2. I rather take that back now (Well, I would, right?)!

I hope there will still be room for a *variety* of techniques in VA for some time.

I do echo the plaintive plaintive cry of "Why is VA so controversial all the time"!

But I acknowlege that (here anyway) discussion is more  open-mindeded...

Without regret, and notwithstanding a significant upgrade spend,

I think I might start to consider quality of life over Astronomy...

In the UK, we are at the mercy of climate, neighbours hedges etc.

Funding too? As they say in Dragon's Den, "I'm Out" on this. 

[MrOD]

By the way, isn't it more reasonable to buy proper astro imaging CCD camera? You get extra cooling feature, most of them are already checked in the field. If You wan't to spend 800 why not spend 200-300 more and get one? What is the actual difference for us?

I have no experience in imaging. I have been after video right from the start with cctv cameras and now with this new digital CCD cameras dedicated to our hobby comming to the market i have been thinking if I should get one or should I go for imaging camera and use it for EAA. What do You think?

[shirva]

MROD.. you are correct in what you say it is better getting a camera that is a dedicated to video astronomy. Video astronomy has been around a long time and in the early years the equipment was very expensive and out of the reach of ,, run of the mill astronomers .. no disrespect to any reading this. . It then moved on to much of what we have been using lately, modified cctv cameras then cctv cameras with low light features and longer integration times...now lately we have the lodestar cameras using lodestar live software giving us a cheaper option to the leader of the pack mallincam, atik are now producing video dedicated cameras as well...welcome all to a new era .. more astronomy camera manufacturers catering for video astronomers. .. looks like we're here to stay.

[shirva]

Second part of the question you asked was on pricing. . Most folk who have been doing video astronomy for a while done it on a budget ,most started with webcams that were converted to be used on telescopes, great for moon and using accessories the planets as well.. then we all soon crave to video deep sky objects.yet again we modified cheap cctv cameras to achieve this... why probably most like myself could not afford to get fully into astrophotography so video was the poor relation..we didn't need top of the range goto mounts or guiding or massive aperture scopes to gobble up the photons.. a small fast scope is sufficient for us and a tracking mount , even the poor old samsung scb2000 was the ideal starter camera and still a favourite with a lot of folk..we long timers made the most of what was around and modified the living daylights out of them...we must have done something right for a lot of others following us into video astronomy. .... maybe it's the poor weather all over the planet that has brought more to video astronomy as video cameras are giving faster results. .

But where is the line between astrophotography and video these days..

astrophotography. .stacked long exposed images

video astronomy..frames drawn from long integration video captures stacked as images

[Macavity]

By the way, isn't it more reasonable to buy proper astro imaging CCD camera? 

Quite reasonably? For me, an *integrating* video camera internally stacks 

exposures of 1/50s over a time scale of 5-10 sec. During that time

I'm fairly sure even my wonky HEQ5 tracks reasonably well...

I don't have to to worry more about scope guiding etc.

(Registax [or similar] does all that for me!)

But these, formerly different techniques, do now begin to merge into one.

You pays your money? etc. But I have noted a significant increase in image

quality with the "X2" chips (be they Lodestar or Watec). Enough for me!

And it is usually the "not so hot" stuff that get the real price reductions...