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Upgrade to 12"-16"?


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Hello all,

I currently use a 250px dob. It lives in the house and I carry it out to the garden. I also stick it in the car for star parties. Currently it is the ideal scope - best bang for buck and most convenient.

Now my wife would like it in a shed up the garden out of the way. I've got no problem with that as it will mean just lifting it out the shed a few feet to the patio. This coincides with selling off some camera kit. I may go for a larger scope as there will hardly any lifting it around. I think the 250px is excellent so wont jump into anything.  The contenders are (with my budget);

OO 12" Long.  I like solid tubes.  The ep height would be better for me (lots of low light pollution means an upright scope a lot of time). Is the base better? Assume optics must be better. Still fairly light.

14" flextube. I've been happy with SW so far. I would get 4" of extra aperture and can still lug it to the car a few times a year for dark site visits.

16" Revelation. Loads more aperture, but I haven't read many reviews and assume there must be some reasons why it is so cheap. Also a lot more scope to move around   - especially to take to star parties.

What do you think?

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As big a you can...I went from 12" to 18"..... But it's just liftable??? On my own

I have to say that ever since I was a kid I have wanted the biggest scope possible. Other things have always got in the way. Of course if I got a 14" or 16" I would never want to get an even bigger one???

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For me I would not really consider SkyPartys too much as those would be 1 or 2 times a year. So a very small portion of my viewing time so if it is a bit more struggle to get it there it would be worth it and not that much struggle for 1-2 times. If you travel a couple times a month then that would be different. But if 90% of your viewing time is 10-20 feet from your shed then you have to figure out is moving a 16" 10-20 feet too much for you or not. I know jumping from 10" to 16" will be huge and well worth it if you can afford it.

Also consider EP height and if you have to stay on a step stool all night or not. Some don't mind it and some hate it. 

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For me I would not really consider SkyPartys too much as those would be 1 or 2 times a year. So a very small portion of my viewing time so if it is a bit more struggle to get it there it would be worth it and not that much struggle for 1-2 times.

That's a good point. As much as I would like to go to dark sites the reality is once or twice a year as you say.

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Hi Bish (and everyone else for that matter!)  :icon_cool:

I don't even own a scope at the moment so I think I can comment impartially....

Ive owned 8"/10"/12" and 16" dobs and each one has given me a lot of happiness but for slightly different reasons. I'm not going to waffle on about those reasons now but my two favourite scopes were the 12" SW flex tube and 16" Sumerian.

A straight comparison of apertures between the 16" and 12" at a dark site and yeah the 16" wins hands down but not by a huge amount, the 12" under dark skies was still pretty damn good! The biggest reason I loved the 16" was for galaxies and actually seeing the structure of spiral arms easily, I could see spiral arms with the 12" but they were faint and I had to put more time and effort into seeing them.

BUT......

If (when) I ever return to stargazing I will go for a fairly slow 12" probably a OOUK with high grade optics.

Stargazing just seemed more relaxing and simpler with my old 12". Sat on a normal height observing chair with my camping table and box of ep's and drawing stuff  handy it was just very relaxing and added to the experience.

A 12" will do everything very well, the only problem for you is that its only 2" bigger than what you already have but if you want a scope for life to cover everything then I would look no further.

Cheers

Mike

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Hi Bish (and everyone else for that matter!)  :icon_cool:

I don't even own a scope at the moment so I think I can comment impartially....

Ive owned 8"/10"/12" and 16" dobs and each one has given me a lot of happiness but for slightly different reasons. I'm not going to waffle on about those reasons now but my two favourite scopes were the 12" SW flex tube and 16" Sumerian.

A straight comparison of apertures between the 16" and 12" at a dark site and yeah the 16" wins hands down but not by a huge amount, the 12" under dark skies was still pretty damn good! The biggest reason I loved the 16" was for galaxies and actually seeing the structure of spiral arms easily, I could see spiral arms with the 12" but they were faint and I had to put more time and effort into seeing them.

BUT......

If (when) I ever return to stargazing I will go for a fairly slow 12" probably a OOUK with high grade optics.

Stargazing just seemed more relaxing and simpler with my old 12". Sat on a normal height observing chair with my camping table and box of ep's and drawing stuff  handy it was just very relaxing and added to the experience.

A 12" will do everything very well, the only problem for you is that its only 2" bigger than what you already have but if you want a scope for life to cover everything then I would look no further.

Cheers

Mike

Thanks Mike. Interesting to hear  a slightly different perspective

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Hi Bish (and everyone else for that matter!)  :icon_cool:

I don't even own a scope at the moment so I think I can comment impartially....

Ive owned 8"/10"/12" and 16" dobs and each one has given me a lot of happiness but for slightly different reasons. I'm not going to waffle on about those reasons now but my two favourite scopes were the 12" SW flex tube and 16" Sumerian.

A straight comparison of apertures between the 16" and 12" at a dark site and yeah the 16" wins hands down but not by a huge amount, the 12" under dark skies was still pretty damn good! The biggest reason I loved the 16" was for galaxies and actually seeing the structure of spiral arms easily, I could see spiral arms with the 12" but they were faint and I had to put more time and effort into seeing them.

BUT......

If (when) I ever return to stargazing I will go for a fairly slow 12" probably a OOUK with high grade optics.

Stargazing just seemed more relaxing and simpler with my old 12". Sat on a normal height observing chair with my camping table and box of ep's and drawing stuff  handy it was just very relaxing and added to the experience.

A 12" will do everything very well, the only problem for you is that its only 2" bigger than what you already have but if you want a scope for life to cover everything then I would look no further.

Cheers

Mike

thats why i still love my 14" nice ad easy to manage and packs a punch

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I'd just like to point out that Mike's comments on 12", 14" and 16" are under DARK sky. under light polluted sky, the aperture advantage will be much more limited. Your 10" in a dark site will beat a 16" in your light polluted sky hands down. If you're set for a bigger scope, you should go for the biggest you're willing to travel to a dark site, petrol money is the best spent money for visual astronomer, IMHO.

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Interesting arguments here. I'm used to lugging around my 10" Dob and think I would be happy enough with a 12". One of my clubs recently invested in the Revelation 16" and, yes, it's a lovely piece of kit but I really don't think I would want to manhandle it alone (and I don't regard myself as a weakling).

Whatever you end up getting, I hope you really enjoy it.

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I have to say that ever since I was a kid I have wanted the biggest scope possible. Other things have always got in the way. Of course if I got a 14" or 16" I would never want to get an even bigger one???

Hi Bish,

I too have a 250px, and love it: grrrreat scope :)

I upgraded to a 15" earlier this year - it has only made me wish for a bigger one again! But, I recognise the practical compromises...

My goals for upgrading were:

* larger aperture for DSOs - visual only

* good optics - I do like to look at a bit of everything, Moon/planets

* good mechanics/smooth movement

* Easy setup/take down

* portability for driving to a local darker site more often

* long term investment, needs to last, and get used lots

My 15" is thankfully ticking all the boxes - sooo much nicer to track objects with the buttery smooth movement no backlash/jerking. I can observe near zenith with ease, whereas I found it challenging with the 250px. The scope is beautifully balanced when changing EPs - just stays where it is while paradoxically remaining smooth and light to the touch for manual tracking.

Setup takedown is nice and easy (I have to carry out and assemble from indoors - can't 'roll out' of a garage which would be really great. This was important to me so that the hassle factor would not get in the way of taking the scope out. This is an area where the 250px also excels - it is grab and go. The only thing is increased cool down time particularly for planetary use, but mine is a 2" thick mirror - there are thinner options out there.

I love the extra aperture, and the 15" is the scope I use all the time now pretty much. And this was a key part of the choice - I read so much about the warnings of buying too big a scope that it doesn't get used -- the other big factor of course being cost!!

Would I like a larger scope - hell yeah!! But I think I'd need it to be stored in a garage to be rolled out easily, and then I know I'd really need to be driving to a darker site to really be getting the money's worth out of it. So my 15" is a pragmatic compromise for me, and I put the money into a long term scope that I believe is well designed mechanically, easy to use, good optics - and something that I use all the time when the weather plays ball.

PS Mike73 - your website and sketches are just fantastic! I always like to compare what I see at the EP to what others have sketched, and frequently visit your site :)

All the best,

-Niall

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thats why i still love my 14" nice ad easy to manage and packs a punch

The 14" is looking favourite at the moment

Hi Bish,

I too have a 250px, and love it: grrrreat scope :)

I upgraded to a 15" earlier this year - it has only made me wish for a bigger one again! But, I recognise the practical compromises...

My goals for upgrading were:

* larger aperture for DSOs - visual only

* good optics - I do like to look at a bit of everything, Moon/planets

* good mechanics/smooth movement

* Easy setup/take down

* portability for driving to a local darker site more often

* long term investment, needs to last, and get used lots

PS Mike73 - your website and sketches are just fantastic! I always like to compare what I see at the EP to what others have sketched, and frequently visit your site :)

All the best,

-Niall

Thanks Niall. Your list is exactly what I have in mind too. Funnily enough if I could have any scope for my circumstances it would be a 15" Obsession.  It must be  a real joy to use. I think that if I can keep hold of the 10" as well as get a bigger scope then I will.

Interesting arguments here. I'm used to lugging around my 10" Dob and think I would be happy enough with a 12". One of my clubs recently invested in the Revelation 16" and, yes, it's a lovely piece of kit but I really don't think I would want to manhandle it alone (and I don't regard myself as a weakling).

Whatever you end up getting, I hope you really enjoy it.

Yes there is a worry that too big and it wont get used

I'd just like to point out that Mike's comments on 12", 14" and 16" are under DARK sky. under light polluted sky, the aperture advantage will be much more limited. Your 10" in a dark site will beat a 16" in your light polluted sky hands down. If you're set for a bigger scope, you should go for the biggest you're willing to travel to a dark site, petrol money is the best spent money for visual astronomer, IMHO.

This is very true. Unfortunately with work and weather etc I don't get to go to dark sites very often.

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Get the 16" ,love mine and it gets used a lot easily transportable,not sure on the revalation brand this mines a Oldham optics mirror set good luck on your purchase

Pat

Just when I thought I had made up my mind....

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TBH 14" & 16" truss scopes are similar in size and requirements when it comes to transportation/portability. Therefore I would go with the larger aperture.

You do really need to be at dark skies to get the most out of them.  but you know that anyway.  So I'm hardly telling you anything new :)

Ps Great to see you back on SGL Mike. :)

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I have two larger scopes, one a 12" dob and one a 16" dob. both are f4 and both are OOUK but set on a home made base.

post-5119-0-21985400-1358375553.jpg

Note the size difference (the 14" is in between the two of course).

I use my 12" all the time at home, it's light and easy to move about. the 16" I tend to use at star parties and occasionally when I know it's going to be a good clear night at home. i.e. when it's worth the effort.

I am eventually going to create a truss system for the 16" to make it more easily transportable but in all honesty, I get it in my small hatchback with all my camping gear and two large fracs once the front seat (passenger side!) is removed. The 12" goes in the car much more easily.

You cannot go wrong with either but if moving a large scope is a concern and it will be your only option then go for the slightly smaller option. If you are keeping your 10" then I'd go for the largest option you can move alone as you also have your 'home option' as a back up.

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I went from 10" to 16" and the difference was quite noticeable. Fortunately i have reasonably dark skies and can roll the 16" out of the garage on wheelbarrow handles. Set up < 5 mins. I still use the 10" though, it is just easier to use sometimes as you can sit down most of the time and I find it easier to use on the zenith (that flippin' Dob Hole!).

I haven't been to a proper dark site yet, but plan on doing it this autumn/winter. The 16" (Lightbridge) does break down but it wouldn't be as portable as Nialls Obsession - I'm imagining, although I'm hoping Niall will let me have a look through it sometime soon..............ahem!

I think you should always go as big as you can manage. If at some point you find you don't use it, sell it, better to have tried it and failed, than spent an age wondering should you have done it.

BIG, BIG, BIG

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although I'm hoping Niall will let me have a look through it sometime soon..............ahem!

BIG, BIG, BIG

Definitely Barry - of course you will be very welcome, as long as I get to look through your 16" :D Let's try to arrange something if the weather's good during the next new moon...

Like the BIG BIG BIG advice!!! Some day...

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Moonshane -  That's interesting as your f4 12" is roughly the same length tube as my 10" f4.7. The 16" looks huge!

Niall - Thanks for the link. Unfortunately a little bit over what I can currently stretch to. Otherwise very tempting.

Bart - I am starting to think there will be time when I definitely won't be able to lug a 16", so perhaps I should while I still can. As you say I can sell it but if I never try then I will always wonder.

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