Skywatcher Skytee II v Tele-Optic Ercole

[DRT]

I have been using a Tele-Optic Giro III for about a year and have been very happy with its performance until I bought some heavier scopes - StarTravel 150, Explorer 200P and Helios f/8 150 - that are beyond its capability. I bought a new Skytee II to solve the problem but must say that my first few experiences of using it were completely underwhelming.

When loaded with two heavy scopes, as the specification claims to allow, it seems impossible to keep the scopes aligned without using only the slow motion controls - which is a pain when you have been used to using a Giro. Any attempt to push the scopes around in any direction seems to end up with one scope being left behind due to slippage in the multitude of clutches and tension knobs that (almost) hold the mount together.

Frustration with this led me to pull the trigger on a new Tele-Optic Ercole to see if I had made a mistake in switching to the Skytee II. Five minutes with the Ercole this evening with the Helios 150 and my TV Pronto have confirmed that I did indeed make a mistake.

The Ercole is super-smooth in its movement in all directions. It has no play in either axis (unlike the Skytee) and moving the scopes around is completely effortless.

If you want to spend £250ish on an Alt-Az mount I would recommend the Ercole. It doesn't come with dovetail clamps, but then the Skytee II comes with clamps that immediately need to be replaced with something more robust.

The current EUR/GBP exchange rate makes these mounts an absolute steal if you buy from a Eurpoean supplier

[John]

Thats good feedback Derek

I'm happy with my Giro II/III (could be either ?) at the moment but if I go for a heavier / longer scope I'd certainly consider the Ercole.

[DRT]

It is quite honestly like night and day, John. The Skytee II is a big heavy lump and with a single scope on it is more than up to the job, so it serves a purpose and is not yet on the "for sale" list. But swapping over to the Ercole is a bit like stepping out of a Lada and climbing into a Mercedes.

What surprises me the most is that they are almost the same price!

[Helen]

That's interesting to hear Derek.  I have a Skytee 2 that I also am a little underwhelmed with.  I upgraded from a Skytee for the slow motion controls (based on experience with a vixen porta), but unlike the porta it seems you can either have manual movement OR slow mo because of the clutches.  But then the manual movement is stiff, so precise movement is harder anyway.  So I too am tempted by a Giro (got a mini).  Would the Giro 3 take a WO FLT98 do you think?

Helen

[DRT]

I'm happy with my Giro II/III (could be either ?) at the moment but if I go for a heavier / longer scope I'd certainly consider the Ercole.

I do love the Giro III but it did struggle with these larger scopes. I've just spent half an hour with the Helios f8 150 refractor on the Ercole whizzing around between the Moon, the double cluster and just any old star field I could find and what struck me most is the distinct lack of wobble, despite the fact the clutches are completely loosened. This a seriously impressive piece of kit.

[DRT]

Would the Giro 3 take a WO FLT98 do you think?

Absolutely!

I don't think it would even notice it was there

I use mine with an ED100 with a Baader wedge twined with a Lunt 50Ha for solar with TV Ethos EPs and it takes it in its stride.

The Giro III is a fantastic mount, but the Ercole is simply in another league.

[Helen]

Can you tell I'm tempted.....  (it'll take up less room for holiday next week...) 

Helen 

[Stu]

Nice one Derek. You've confirmed what I always suspected about the Skytee, that it wasn't for me. I'm sure it suits many who like the slo mo controls, but having used giros for so long, grabbing and moving the scope is far more intuitive to me.

I loved my Ercole, and regret selling it in many ways. It's a very capable, no nonsense mount. It just about coped with the Vixen too which was impressive.

I find a lot of the stability comes from the tripod. My Giro-WR on an EQ6 tripod will hold the 120ED and FC-100 with not too many problems, it remains quite smooth though not in an Ercole's league. Put it on a photo tripod and its a different story!

[DRT]

I find a lot of the stability comes from the tripod.

Very true, Stu.

My comparison was with the Skytee II on an EQ6 2" tripod with the legs extended about 6" and a 16" pillar extension. The Ercole was on an EQ5 1.75" tripod with a similar pillar and the legs fully extended. The Skytee II got he better deal out of that but the stiffness of the mount means lots of wobble when using in push-to mode. That wobble is completely absent from the Ercole set-up.

I'm not planning on trying either of these on my Manfrotto

[John]

Can you tell I'm tempted.....  (it'll take up less room for holiday next week...) 

Helen 

My Giro II / III (it's not marked) handles my 15lbs ED120 well Helen. It does benefit from a 2kg counterweight on the other arm to make it smoother though.

[Helen]

My Giro II / III (it's not marked) handles my 15lbs ED120 well Helen. It does benefit from a 2kg counterweight on the other arm to make it smoother though.

Thanks John 

[DRT]

I've now finished my upgrades to these mounts so here they are in all their splendor...

SkyTee II on 2" EQ6 tripod with 16" EQ5 pillar extension and Tele-Optic Ercole on EQ5 tripod with 16" EQ5 pillar extension

Both mounts have 1 x ADM Viven-style Saddle and 1 x Baader Vixen-style Clamps

Now I just neew the clouds to clear so that I can put them through their paces

[Jarno_c]

I've had the Skytee II (but under a different brand name) and one of the first things I did was drill some additional holes so I could attach a saddle where you now have the counterweight bar. The holes must be drilled fairly accurate to keep the two scopes in alignment but then you have the best of both worlds: the load capacity of the Ercole with the slow motion controls of the Skytee. Or, if needed, a triple-scope setup.

Jarno

[DirkSteele]

I will echo the view on the Ercole.  Have used it for 3 years and believe it excellent.  There is a review on SGL somewhere from me.

As for the Giro III taking the WLT98....Not a challenge at all.  I used my TMB 115 F/7 triplet on a Giro II from 2004 until 2012 when I purchased the Ercole and it was very smooth.

[Helen]

Thanks everyone    Looks like I dithered too long for Derek's Giro 3   and they don't seem to make them any more... So it might be an Ercole.  Best supplier?

Helen

[DRT]

Thanks everyone    Looks like I dithered too long for Derek's Giro 3   and they don't seem to make them any more... So it might be an Ercole.  Best supplier?

Helen

Sorry, Helen, someone snapped it up a couple of days ago

I bought my Ercole from Telescop Service in Germany. With the current exchange rate it worked out at £290 delivered excluding clamps, which you need to buy separately.

http://www.teleskop-express.de/shop/product_info.php/language/en/info/p4202_GIRO-ERCOLE-Azimutale-Montierung-bis-30kg---M10-Gewindeanschluss.html

Good luck

[Helen]

Thanks Derek

[andrew63]

I was looking at these mounts a few months back - not a great deal choice in the UK though.   This Sabre could be worth consideration.

though.

Altair Sabre Alt-Azimuth Telescope Mount v2.0 - Altair Astro

andrew

[DRT]

I need to update this review following a few sessions with my 150mm f8 refractor.

The bottom line is that the Skytee II handles the big frac much better than the Ercole. I have spent a few nights with it on both and have found that the tension bolts on the Ercole cannot compete with the clutches on the Skytee II when it comes to dealing with changes in balance when swapping eyepieces or when viewing anywhere near zenith.

The most comfortable method I have found with the Skytee II is to leave the Az clutch disengaged or loose and have the Alt clutch as tight as possible and use a long slow-mo control to move the scope up and down. That means when moving around I can have my right hand on the scope/diagonal to move laterally and the left hand on the slow-mo to move up or down. On a good heavy tripod this method results in very little vibration and no up/down drifting even if the set-up is slightly out of balance.

All that said, fair play to the Ercole - put two medium weight scopes on it with reasonable baance, let the tension bolts out and it works like a dream.

Conclusion: they are both keepers!

[Stu]

Interesting Derek. Does the top clamp on the Ercole not lock the alt axis completely for eyepiece changes? That's what I used to do and I think that's how it is designed.

Viewing near the Zenith is a challenge for any of these mounts if you have a long and heavy eyepiece in the diagonal. I have built myself a counterbalance weight which I sometimes use which hangs down underneath the scope at the front and keeps everything balanced even at the Zenith. Worth experimenting with, I'll post a picture when I get it back , I've loaned it to a friend at the moment

[DRT]

Interesting Derek. Does the top clamp on the Ercole not lock the alt axis completely for eyepiece changes? That's what I used to do and I think that's how it is designed.

Yes, it does that, Stu. What I was meaning is that changing eyepieces on either scope very often throws the balance of the set-up out so when you go back to viewing the big scope can pull one way or the other and cause drifting. That doesn't happen with the SkyTee II if used with the Alt clutch fully engaged.

the drifting issue with the Ercole can of course be solved by re-balancing the scope(s) but that's a bit of a pain if you are having to do it every few minutes.

Does that make sense?

[Stu]

Yes, it does that, Stu. What I was meaning is that changing eyepieces on either scope very often throws the balance of the set-up out so when you go back to viewing the big scope can pull one way or the other and cause drifting. That doesn't happen with the SkyTee II if used with the Alt clutch fully engaged.

the drifting issue with the Ercole can of course be solved by re-balancing the scope(s) but that's a bit of a pain if you are having to do it every few minutes.

Does that make sense?

Yes, that does make sense. Having the sliding counterweight on the dovetail underneath can make it easier to quickly rebalance, but I know what you mean.

I find that two scopes are easier somehow, the balance seems a little less critical so that's how I often use mine.

This is my solution for the Vixen! Not strictly needed on the AZEQ6 but it does help.

[DRT]

I like the balance rod, Stu. Where did you get it?