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10-Micron. Coping with OTA swaps


Zakalwe

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How does a mount like the 10-Micron cope with OTA swaps?

For instance, swapping between a DSO imaging rig and a big SCT for planetary? or loading solar scopes piggy-backed onto the DSO rig?

Does it mean that the sky model needs to be re-built each time? Would a side-by side be a better option?

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Then again, I might just do a Lord Sewell and have a good time! :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

I think this is actually exceptionally clever anti drug abuse policy.  I mean, what self-respecting hipster is going to want to be seen to be copying the behaviour of a sixty-eight year old peer?

Or, as someone else has put it "iPhones stop being cool when your parents buy one".

James

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Well that seems quite definite.

I'm Mesu-curious (perhaps Lord Sewell is too). What is about the Mesu that you don't like?

Without turning this into a "Why not XX mount", I have a few reasons:

Pros:

  • Shedloads of carrying capacity
  • Very accurate tracking
  • No backlash
  • Guides extremely well

Cons:

  • Mesu is very dependant on a single individual for support. Thats a single point of failure in a £5K purchase. No thank you.
  • The SciTech control system looks very powerful, but looks like an absolute horrowshow to setup to me. Seeing report of needing to calculate rates in order to get the tracking correct (if the configuration is lost) don't help.
  • I want it integrated with a PC. That doesn't look straightforward to me. Possible yes. Easy? not so sure,
  • Limited installed base.

Plus, IF I do this, then I'll always be wondering what the premium mounts are really like. The Mesu is £4.5K, the 10-Micron £5.5K ish. The Paramount MyT is £5k

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No worries...at this stage it's only in planning.

Yes, the GM1000. I can't envision dropping 10 large on a GM2000 mount.

I watched an hour+ long video - it was an Astronomy show/channel - that featured a user on this forum.  It was all about the 10 microns.  The GM2000 (which was his main mount) looked a fabulous bit of kit.  The chap's user name here is perfrej I believe.  He seemed to know everything there was to know about the 10 micron.  Maybe if you PMed him he would be able to answer your question.

Regards 

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OK, there was a direct question...

The GM mounts are sub arc-second mounts, so the model is disturbed by swapping OTAs. You can, however, store models in the mount database and recall them on demand. So, swap OTA, DON'T MOVE THE MOUNT, recall the model and then align it with a single sync. This works well and your milage will come out at how consistent your stuff behaves. A sloppy scope/imaging train will not model well and is not suitable for swapping. A rigid scope/imaging train will swap just fine with a single point align of the model (still, one model per scope, stored in the database).

/per

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OK, there was a direct question...

The GM mounts are sub arc-second mounts, so the model is disturbed by swapping OTAs. You can, however, store models in the mount database and recall them on demand. So, swap OTA, DON'T MOVE THE MOUNT, recall the model and then align it with a single sync. This works well and your milage will come out at how consistent your stuff behaves. A sloppy scope/imaging train will not model well and is not suitable for swapping. A rigid scope/imaging train will swap just fine with a single point align of the model (still, one model per scope, stored in the database).

/per

Thanks Per...that's exactly the info that I was after.

One other question if I may? What is the interface to the pier plate? Is the base of the 10 Micron flat, or does it need an adapter plate?

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I'd love one of those GM2000 mounts, but ... I just cannot justify the cost.

It would be interesting to hear what - apart from carrying capacity - are the real-world significant differences between the GM1000 and the GM2000.  I don't know if you could expand on that Per.  I assume that you can use your modelling program on both?

Zakalwe - you were quoting around £5.5K for the GM1000.  Is that direct from the supplier (inclusive of shipping)?  And did that include everything that you needed to get up and running with the mount?

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There is quite a bit of difference between the two, but they share the drive mechanism principles, the motor assemblies, the encoder technology and the control box. That said, they behave exactly the same, but of course the 2000 performs slightly better at similar loads, just like a larger engine used at a lower percentage behaves better than a smaller used at higher percentage of its capacity.

Modeling and usage is exactly the same, with the main difference being the maximum slew speed. The 1000 slews at a modest 15 degrees per second, while the 2000 gives you 20 degrees per second. To my knowledge, no other mount comes close to any of those two numbers. Slew speed saves time when building a model, which can include performing up to 100 slews. It also saves imaging time when performing meridian flips. When I got my first GM2000HPS I shot a brief video showing a flip...

http://filer.frejvall.se/Flip.m4v

Both mounts give you unguided imaging at any desirable sub length if your OTA and imaging train are stable enough. That excludes quite a few mirror-based telescopes from modeling properly, so you have to be careful about what you put on them. If your mirror can be locked and the scope still be focused you are most likely in luck. High quality refractors with good focusers work extremely well, but some focusers that have a high quality name to them may not perform as expected (Moonlite to mention one).

When your stuff is tuned to the sound of solid steel, your 10Micron, with a good model run, can give stuff like this hour long sub of M106. Yes, it is ONE sub of 60 minute duration and was shot with a GM2000HPS and a Skywatcher 190MN with modified primary mirror assembly: No guiding at all, just the mount doing its thing all by itself.

Hour.png

All the best,

Per

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Interesting Steve that you are not the only person on here I've seen who has changed from an EQ8 to something else. All things being equal the EQ8 should be a mount to stay with you for life, it certainly has a larger weight capacity than the 10Micron GM1000.

A shame really as the EQ8 should be a mount for life unless you look at upgrading for a bigger payload (and then you are looking at monsters!).

Can I ask what advantages you will gain by changing the EQ8 if you don't mind me asking.

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Zakalwe - you were quoting around £5.5K for the GM1000.  Is that direct from the supplier (inclusive of shipping)?  And did that include everything that you needed to get up and running with the mount?

No, Ian King. The Euro is a bit up and down so the prices are moving about a bit. The mount comes without any counterweights (add about £120) or PSU (another £115). All in its ~£5.5K

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Interesting Steve that you are not the only person on here I've seen who has changed from an EQ8 to something else. All things being equal the EQ8 should be a mount to stay with you for life, it certainly has a larger weight capacity than the 10Micron GM1000.

A shame really as the EQ8 should be a mount for life unless you look at upgrading for a bigger payload (and then you are looking at monsters!).

Can I ask what advantages you will gain by changing the EQ8 if you don't mind me asking.

The main reason is because I want to know what a premier class mount can do. No-one really needs a better mount/car/bigger TV. So a big part is nothing more than pure consumerism!

Im also toying with the idea of fully motorising the obsy, so it can image all night. Dunno how to do all of that, and my projects tend to move at a snails pace, so it might never happen. The EQ8 normally needs a bit of a fiddle with balance after a meridian flip.

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No, Ian King. The Euro is a bit up and down so the prices are moving about a bit. The mount comes without any counterweights (add about £120) or PSU (another £115). All in its ~£5.5K

Interesting, his website says ~£6.2K. Is he the only UK supplier?

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Interesting, his website says ~£6.2K. Is he the only UK supplier?

Because the prices are up and down due to the currency variations he hasn't updated his site. Give Ian a bell for the price. I think that he imports from Baader Planaterium.

I think that the Widescreen Centre also sells them.

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Interesting Steve that you are not the only person on here I've seen who has changed from an EQ8 to something else. All things being equal the EQ8 should be a mount to stay with you for life, it certainly has a larger weight capacity than the 10Micron GM1000.

A shame really as the EQ8 should be a mount for life unless you look at upgrading for a bigger payload (and then you are looking at monsters!).

Can I ask what advantages you will gain by changing the EQ8 if you don't mind me asking.

I have gone from an EQ8 to a 10 Micron GM2000. With the backlash on the EQ8 i felt that i couldn't trust the mount do work by itself when leaving the gear running by itself.

Once i left 30min after setting up and came back after 5 hours, almost all subs were ruined because of guiding oscillations caused by backlash :rolleyes:

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