planetary - 5se, televue 3x, eos 500d ? small blurry planets

[mwainwright]

Hi there, 

Ive just got started with some gear, and had a quick go last night at trying to capture saturn with my 5se, televue 3x barlow and my eos 500d, I`m having trouble getting focus with the aforementioned setup,    I turned to the moon too, and with the 3x barlow i still have a soft image and soft view in the viewer. (i have teh same issue when using the 3x with the 24mm plossl for visual too)

I guess, I need to know what my expectations are regarding this setup, what can I expect to be able to (best case, when I know what im doing) image regarding our favourite gas giants, jupiter and saturn, using standard single shot photography and this setup ( i dont have magic lantern or a laptop to do any live view grabbing at the moment.) ,  all i managed last night was a couple of fuzzy pixels. 

the scope looks to be in collimation. 

any hints or tips that will help me capture this beauty before shes no longer visible  

cheers,

Mark

[jimbo747]

Have you tried the moon without the Barlow? None of the planets are in good positions at the moment, Saturn is low so it will be difficult to see more than a smudge. Also with planets single shots won't really work, you need video with as many frames as possible and then stack. Single shots of the moon will work though. Its also sounds like the focus is off, it has to be exact to get any sort of detail, I find a tablet or laptop essential

[MarsG76]

Planetary imaging is much more dependent on seeing conditions... there have been nights when I was not able to get much detail at all, and the resultant stack just looked out of focus, but then the next night I was getting clarity that was "WOW".

You said that you collimation is good so I say to use a 3X barlow on a 5SE you NEED impeccable seeing conditions, otherwise stick to native or 2X, also use a IR/UV blocking filter to cut away any IR that can cause a softening effect. 

Are you shooting individual frames with your 500D or are you recording video? Recording 2 minutes of video and stacking the best 25-30% of the frames in Registax will always give you superior results then a single shot.

[mwainwright]

Planetary imaging is much more dependent on seeing conditions... there have been nights when I was not able to get much detail at all, and the resultant stack just looked out of focus, but then the next night I was getting clarity that was "WOW".

You said that you collimation is good so I say to use a 3X barlow on a 5SE you NEED impeccable seeing conditions, otherwise stick to native or 2X, also use a IR/UV blocking filter to cut away any IR that can cause a softening effect. 

Are you shooting individual frames with your 500D or are you recording video? Recording 2 minutes of video and stacking the best 25-30% of the frames in Registax will always give you superior results then a single shot.

hi there,    currently not stacking as i dont have a pc..     I only discovered after i`d bought my 500d that the 550d has an incredibly cool 640x480 crop video mode      i probably should have gone for that one. 

so yes, in the interim just single shooting. 

cheers,

Mark

[ronin]

Planets are really done by a webcam and video.

On a single shot there is too much chance of slight shake and so the image is blurred, expecially with long focal lengths which you will have.

The video idea is that in a video you might get 1 in 5 good frames, so you select and stack just those 20% good ones.

And end up with a decently sharp image.

Also a DSLR on the rear of a 5SE is going to unbalance it somewhat.

Have you a cable release or remote timer/intervalometer for the DSLR to reduce shake ?

[mwainwright]

Planets are really done by a webcam and video.

On a single shot there is too much chance of slight shake and so the image is blurred, expecially with long focal lengths which you will have.

The video idea is that in a video you might get 1 in 5 good frames, so you select and stack just those 20% good ones.

And end up with a decently sharp image.

Also a DSLR on the rear of a 5SE is going to unbalance it somewhat.

Have you a cable release or remote timer/intervalometer for the DSLR to reduce shake ?

I was using the timer for now, but will be getting an intervalometer asap.    i also have a DSO-1 cam but dont have a pc yet to start trying with that setup. 

cheers,

Mark

[Charic]

Hi.........I don't do astrophotography but there are references  above about the seeing conditions. Once you have corrected your set-up and focusing, everything else will depend on the seeing conditions overhead?

Now I'm surrounded by trees, buildings, trees, street lights and  even more tall trees, so my field of view from my Obsy is very limited. I can lay on my back and literally look straight up and see Polaris. This leaves  Ursa Major and Cassiopeia at my extremes, unless I travel away from home.

For me this is actually ok!.....Viewing my targets as high as possible in the overhead limits the amount of atmospheric anomalies I'm  looking through?  Example: Chuck a 2p coin in the deep end of the swimming pool and it disappears through the turbulent waters above. View again next morning,  the pool has settled,  the view is clear, there is the coin! The conditions in the atmosphere above are not too dissimilar,  all those warm and cold air currents stirring and mixing.

I've often sat here thinking that my scope is either not capable, my eyes are really gone or the seeing is not good. But believe me, when it all comes together for that  fleeting moment, its all worth it, that's your Wow! moment. 

Those Planets may be hard to see just now, but they will be back, in time, and hopefully under better seeing conditions for your session.

[ghostdance]

Don't know about AP, but my experience of the TeleVue 3× Barlow is very positive - seems to 'disappear' tho I've yet to compare with my newly acquired 2.5 Powermate ( dang clouds) - so I can only agree with all the posts above that seeing is the major factor. That, and the current positions of Saturn etc. Never really thought about patience when I started 'serious' stargazing - pretty well acquainted with it now, so at least I've gained some philosophical development, lol

[happy-kat]

You wrote '(i have teh same issue when using the 3x with the 24mm plossl for visual too)'

I would start at the beginning.

If you use only an eyepiece say your lowest power, can you get good focus on the Moon?

Next if that was a yes if you add the barlow to that eye piece can you still get good focus?

[MarsG76]

hi there,    currently not stacking as i dont have a pc..     I only discovered after i`d bought my 500d that the 550d has an incredibly cool 640x480 crop video mode      i probably should have gone for that one. 

so yes, in the interim just single shooting. 

cheers,

Mark

Hello,single shots will only get you so far, mostly a blurry image with hints of cloud bands, nowhere near what you see captured by stacking hundreds of frames captured, even by, webcams.

I think instead of regretting getting your 500D opposed to a 550D, try to get a laptop, there are good one quite cheap these days, and a planetary webcam such as a entry level Celestron NexImage or, I recommend from my experience, the Skyris or Imaging source CCD... What ever funds allow. Even if you got the 550D and used the crop, you'd end up with a 640x480 video file that's is mpeg4 compressed, that in itself will cause detail to be "compressed out".

With focus double check your collimation... But seeing is where you are most likely coming unstuck. Just like you I had nights of frustration where I didn't see anything but a fuzzy shape in my 8SE, but then there are those nights of WOW moments where you just stare into the eyepiece and see details in Saturn, it's rings, jupiter clouds details, GRS etc.. Imaging is the same, some nights now matter what you use and how you process, the images look out of focus, then other nights the finest detail comes up.... Astronomy is where your patience of a monk, hands of a surgeon and perseverance is a must.

[PeterCPC]

For accurate focus I use a Bahtinov mask. Planets are best captured using a CCD camera and AVIs to stack using AS!2 or similar. The image scale using a DSLR will always be a problem even with barlows.

Peter

[Hartmann]

I tried imaging saturn with a 600D with the same results, and i think that DSRL are best suited for deep sky and Webcams for planetary imaging.