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The joy of Non GoTo


Paul73

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Hi Guys

I've just come in from a hugely rewarding session where I tracked down a few of the NGC's near more famous targets.

Starting on the M22/M28 area. Several NGC's fell to the power of my awesome star hopping......

Then the surprisingly nice globs of M56 & 71. And M27 & 57. It was at this point that I came up with the bright idea of having a go at the Blue Flash nebula (NGC6905). Could I find it? Aborted star hop followed aborted star hop. Dead reckoning failed. 90 minutes passed and eventually the little smudge appeared nestling among the busy starfield. It wasn't Blue. It didn't flash. In fact, as PN's go, it was pretty boring. Had I hit the button on my GoTo, I would have discoverded this earlier; shrugged and saved 90 minutes of my life. As it was, I absollutaly was delighted.

Paul

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I know exactly what you mean! I bought my first goto a couple of months ago and I saw say 30 cool DSOs in about 2 hours, cool without a doubt but no "GOTCHA" feeling. That and the general de-skilling common in this modern world we live in

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Nice one Paul, sounds like a good session.

I use goto with the Vixen, push-to with the Sumerian and star hopping with everything else. I enjoy all of them to be honest.

30 dso's with a manual altaz and 76mm scope is my most recent tally. Decent skies certainly help!

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William Herschel *discovered* 72 galaxies in one night with an alt-az mounted scope when GoTo was not so much as a twinkle in his great-great-great-...-granddaughter's eye. If it was good enough for him it's good enough for me.

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With you all the way.  For me, the simplicity of a manual mount, a scope and a good atlas defines the hobby.  This leads to as many frustrations as victories but I find it very rewarding.  When I bought my dob, I very nearly went for a go-to but I'm so glad that I stuck with no cables or batteries and I've learnt so much more about the sky in that way.

I know it's not for everyone.  I know it can be a very inefficient way to observe (although I bet I'd be on my 3rd or 4th object by the time the alignment routines are complete).  I know I'll come in some nights swearing to give up this whole astro lark after being outwitted by a faint fuzzy that others have seen in scopes a third of the size.  But that's the way I roll and I love it!

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No goto for me either (obviously)! In my opinion it would kill half of the pleasure in this hobby.  :rolleyes:

Plus, if one gets familiar with star hopping, no much time is spent either.

I understand the need for goto for those living under light polluted sky though. If very few stars are visible, goto can really help.  :)

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Nice report!

I have to confess that I've started using Argo Navis on my 15", and I get to see much, much more when I get in an all too rare session between the clouds - lots of new wonderful targets. However, there is such a real thrill in finding objects for yourself! Like most things in life, if you have to work for it, the more you learn and appreciate things :) It really does feel like cheating using AN (but it works so exceptionally well...!)

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The number of times that I have searched for something in an area of the sky I reckoned to be correct and well the target was simply not there. Frustration is quickly replaced with determination and re-reading over and over the charts and absorbing this by looking at the sky when suddenly the realisation clicks. I see the star pattern and location I should be at. Those enlightening moments can be almost as satisfying as when I have actually found the target and act as a humbling reminder that I am forever a learner, feeling my way around the sky.

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I understand the need for goto for those living under light polluted sky though. If very few stars are visible, goto can really help.   :)

I wouldn't entirely agree with that. I know with my limited experience I find the night sky easier to navigate in the evening when it is getting dark. Basically, with far fewer stars the big signpost ones stand out. Once it is truly dark, it gets very confusing

On the other hand, I guess with a lot of LP there is less to see. So I suppose that GOTO will take you to where an object should be. No guarantee that you can see it though

Richard

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Before obtaining a telescope I spent ages in the garden learning parts of the sky with 10x50 bins.  I remember finding M13 and feeling really elated by it.  Then I found he dumbbell and that also was great.   I confess on the forum before of spending night after night scouring with my 50mm bins for the easily placed ring nebula.  It eluded me every time, that was not surprising given that you can't see it in a 50mm aperture ! 

The rewards later on of being able to get those same objects easily in a dob with an 8 inch aperture jump from 50mm to 254mm was one of the best things, it was mesmerising.   The thought of a set up process beyond the basic for me remains unappealing, however I take my hat off to anyone with a set up beyond a scope, red torch, Ep's & book. 

I am itching to get outside after reading this thread.........however its clouded up for now. 

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I wouldn't entirely agree with that. I know with my limited experience I find the night sky easier to navigate in the evening when it is getting dark. Basically, with far fewer stars the big signpost ones stand out. Once it is truly dark, it gets very confusing

On the other hand, I guess with a lot of LP there is less to see. So I suppose that GOTO will take you to where an object should be. No guarantee that you can see it though

Richard

Sure, I wasn't meaning that goto allows one to see dso in centre of London :) 

However, certain bright dso are still reachable if stars are visible up to 1-2 mag (naked eye). In this case, star hopping can be a nightmare because of very wide area of sky without any star. I believe goto could help for seeing these very bright dso. :)

On the other hand, there are double stars. Upon the condition above, these can be tricky to find too, whereas goto could help again. :)

Anyway, I am not against goto systems. I believe it is better to have more options rather than not. In my specific case, I like being light and do the full job by myself without circuits, electro-stuff, polar alignments etc. 

The other thing is that via star hopping, I often find out other targets on the way, and this excites me quite a lot!

Hopefully nobody is looking at me in those moments, otherwise I don't want to know who they could phone after seeing one jumping alone in a field in the night! 

:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:  :rolleyes:

(just kidding   :angel12:  )

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I have a confession to make.

I have started to enjoy using my little 90 Mak on the AZ goto mount.

In fact I like it so much that I am now on the lookout for a Skymax 127 to put on the goto mount.

Avtar

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Hi Avtaram,

The 127's are great scopes, if you can the jump to a 150mm mak / sct is a better one (I don't know if it would sit on your mount though!), that would still leave you with your 90mm as a brilliant grab & go scope!

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Hi Avtaram,

The 127's are great scopes, if you can the jump to a 150mm mak / sct is a better one (I don't know if it would sit on your mount though!), that would still leave you with your 90mm as a brilliant grab & go scope!

I did think about getting the Skymax 150 but the OTA weight is 5.6 kg and the quoted load for the AZ goto is about 4 kg, so the Skymax 127 at 3.4 kg should just be ok when diagonal, eyepiece and red dot finder are included.

It will be kept in an unheated garage so it should still be good for a quick grab & go session.

I will use the 90 Mak as a travel scope.

Avtar

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Piero is right about the challenges of star hopping in London. It can be pretty frustrating, so goto is a very nice thing to have, particularly for finding doubles. I have limited time, so want to be actually observing for as long as possible.

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Great thread and read.It is a subject that polarises opinion too :grin:

I have a confession to make.

I have started to enjoy using my little 90 Mak on the AZ goto mount.

In fact I like it so much that I am now on the lookout for a Skymax 127 to put on the goto mount.

Avtar

It does polarise opinion, and I don't think you need to confess anything

I'm reasonably sure that the vast majority of people here are doing this for fun rather than as serious science. How you have fun is different for all of us

I happen to enjoy using with things I can get intimately involved with. It's really no surprise that I have dismantled my scopes, modified some of them and like to work with paper and setting rings.

I have my sister's Celestron here to work out how it is set up. It's a nice little thing with a neat motorised mount.  I got it set up, plugged in some numbers and it showed me two DSOs pretty quickly. And once I had got over the 'wow' of the mount finding stuff on it's own I just didn't enjoy the process so much. I saw two grey smudges fairly rapidly

On the other hand, I spent the best part of an hour trying to find the Andromeda galaxy using Cassiopeia and Andromeda (and the top of our Bay tree), which I eventually did. I found a smudge (of course). On the other hand, I learned the shape of Andromeda and the location of Mirach. So, for me, I hunted out a smudge and learned some astral geography, and I had fun

Taking BigSumorian's phrase, I am happier finding than observing at the moment. Maybe that will change if I ever get my damn scope collimated properly  ^_^

Richard

Taking 

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