still cant decide on a scope

[brrttpaul]

I had my heart on a refractor either the equinox, williams optics or the ED80 pro, then someone suggested the quattro f4 and have to admit it sounds great for the price but the one big question is how difficult is it to collimate? I have never done this before and no idea on how to go about it etc, is it worth a novice attempting it or go with the refractor as first choice, also how much of a difference is there in the 8" quattro and the 10" . Guess I,m still stuck in the bigger is better mode ATM

[Alexgopro]

I'm also deciding on a scope, a firstcope in my case. My understanding has been to stick with a basic but large dobsonian due to simplicity and having quality in optics over other gadgets that are likely to confuse you now but may come in handy in later years like say AP and goto. 

I'm seeing a trend in the people not doing AP having large dobs, but I could be crazy.  

[Tinker1947]

Collimating a Scope is easy once you get to grasp why you are turning knobs ect the secondary mirror only really needs setting up the once, so that just leaves the 3 knobs on the Primary end, my 2 Newt's take about 1 minute each a good collimator helps, The Quattro is a more precise scope to collimate than a P-DS type and while your get lots of (you don't want one of them) people do use them, if you're going to use the HEQ5 then a 200mm is the biggest you want to go and i would just buy a 200mm P-DS save a few pennies for other bits Coma Corrector, Telrad, and a bit further down the AP road Guiding kit....

[L8-Nite]

Food for thought.......

Don't be in a hurry to part with hard earned money. It's a quagmire out there to wade through all the mass market equipment that is offered. Actually viewing through a variety of scopes will tell you more than trying to balance a scale load of plus & minus recommendations. Think of it this way, " a picture is worth a thousand words ", and your eyes will tell you how good the picture is.

For visual observing, consider putting your money in a quality optical train. It's the best investment to insure enjoyment and satisfaction in this hobby. Gadgets and gizmos can be added at a later time if desired, after all, the views are what its all about.

There's still time until the dark nights return to do some careful research. It will pay dividends in the short and long run to acquire the right scope rather than buying the wrong equipment, and then trying to off load undesirable gear at a loss.

[ronin]

What is it that you actually want to do with a scope?

If there is hidden in the depths an idea to get images then say so.

Alexgopro says:

I'm seeing a trend in the people not doing AP having large dobs, but I could be crazy.

The reason is simple, they do not track and they are Alt/Az

They are best considered as a specialised visual scope. Although with the goto dobsonians they are a bit less so, however the mount still would be a problem.

If the idea is for imaging eventually then you will have to compromise on the visual.

A simple approach is: Imaging is a small scope on a big mount, Visual is a big scope on a small mount.

You can get away with a "worse" setup for visual then for imaging in effect.

If the idea is simply to look around then a 6" dobsonian or a 102mm refractor will do you fine as an entry, and if you get a 102 Evostar they are not costly and keep any left over money for the next scope.

If you go for the dobsonian then no imaging - get it plain in your mind now.

However there is no decision on a mount, the dobsonian bit is the mount, the scope bit is a newtonian.

A refractor however means deciing on a mount, Manual, Goto, Alt/Az, Equitorial.

If the problem is buy one scope now and another later, or buy now for later that is different.

Back to imaging - Is later = imaging ?

Apologies for returning to imaging but I find 80% of the people that say "visual only" then ask about imaging 4 to 6 months later.

An option now might be a decent mount, likely goto and equitorial, that will handle a 102mm achro refractor, then if you want to image you keep the mount and drop an 66/70/71/72/80mm apo or ED on.

An EQ5 is a bit boarder line, HEQ5 is fine (but look at an EQ5 first, they are big beasties, bigger then you think), not sure about the iOptron ZEQ25 all seems good but never met one in the flesh. The iOptron SmartEQ is a bit too lightweight - well the tripod looks like a light breeze will create shake.

Scope, Evostar 102 or Bresser 102 (think they do a 102?). To keep CA acceptable f/8 or f/10. Not aware of a 110mm achro of f/8 or so.

Could go bigger at 125mm or 127mm, don't thing Evostars come in that but the Bresser does. Then you are getting bigger and I half think a little over the easy to use size. You will see more in a scope you use a lot.

[xtreemchaos]

hi paul i have the ED80 and the ar127l thay are both great scopes for little money, with the both you get a little ca on really bright stuff more with the ar127l ,its hardly noticeable on the ED.clear skys..charl..

[kalasinman]

Imaging?

Telescopes with mirrors don't get CA

 A 6" GSO Newtonian can give fine results with a good mount and guiding and cost around $500.

A 6" Takahashi refractor will give great results on a premium mount with flawless guiding and costs over $11,000.

Refractors don't give diffraction spikes. A  Newtonian with a $75 curved spider kit  doesn't either.

Please write your "yeah, but..," in space above

[Pig]

Guys you will find that a single scope will not suit all your needs and should you stick with the hobby you will end up with at least 2

First of all you must decide where your interests lie and what your budget is...

Then there are consideration such as portability, how much room you have available to store them, do you want a GoTo type scope or do you want to find targets yourself ?

Next come the eyepieces, probably the most important consideration ! However, the speed of your scope will help determine how much you may need to spend.

Personally I prefer Lunar and Solar with a secondary liking for star clusters and being able to split double stars, the equipment I have purchased is listed in my signature below. This has a tendency to change from time to time and it can get quite expensive...... so be warned  Take some time to decide and if you can try to join your local astronomy club. This way you can try a few different set ups before you decide.

[brrttpaul]

I,m sorry if I wernt clear I do apologise. My main interest is photography this is how I stumbled into this, I find myself now on any clear night running out into the garden with my kit and setting up ready to take some shots. I have had my scope and mount about 3 months now the plan was to buy a refractor but bought the scope/mount 2nd hand so I am making use of it ATM. I have been shooting Galaxies and star clusters so far along with widefield, come winter I suppose the Orion nebula is going to be on my list also. Cant honestly say I am an observer, the buzz for me is trying to capture something and watch it develop with software such as DSS lightroom etc. I am hoping to spend between £1000- £2000 in the near future (depends on a rebate) and really dont know which scope or even to go for a CCD. its been going round in my head for 3 months now and not something im rushing into. Trouble is you think right im decided and then a week later back to square one. 

[kalasinman]

Going out on a limb, why not go for a QHY9 (in mono) CCD and a set of Baader NB filters? Of course that will blow $2.5k and still need $350 or so for a guide rig, but you'll suddenly be light years ahead.

[brrttpaul]

It is something I have torn my hair out with TBH. its the "not having a clue what I,m doing" is the problem. If it was just a matter of buying a CCD then I would probably go for that but you need filter wheels , guide scopes the list goes on and thats where I will be lost, then there is that chip isnt suitable for that scope etc and all of a sudden its a minefield. I do fancy CCD but ATM im out of my depth with it. I have seen on FLO mind where they are combined guidecam/CCD and colour CCD. I know mono is supperior but it comes at a cost maybe a colour starter CCD would be an option

[kalasinman]

It is something I have torn my hair out with TBH. its the "not having a clue what I,m doing" is the problem. If it was just a matter of buying a CCD then I would probably go for that but you need filter wheels , guide scopes the list goes on and thats where I will be lost, then there is that chip isnt suitable for that scope etc and all of a sudden its a minefield. I do fancy CCD but ATM im out of my depth with it. I have seen on FLO mind where they are combined guidecam/CCD and colour CCD. I know mono is supperior but it comes at a cost maybe a colour starter CCD would be an option

There have been recent threads on SGL on OSC vs Mono CCD. Mono and NB the clear winner. As far as starting up, if you aren't well versed in OSCand DSLR processing, why learn techniques you'll just have to re-learn later? There are plenty of very knowledgeable imagers here that wold be happy to save you struggle by climbing 1 steep learning curve (by starting with NB mono CCD) instead of 2.

If the FL of your scope is modest, a cheap short guide scope wil work fine. Add a quality and sensitive guide cam like a QHY5L-II mono.

QHY9 has a chip that is large, almost as large as an APC DSLR, and comes with filter wheel attached, which simplifies driver issues.

Having set point cooling makes darks way easier, as the temp is same, so you can make a library just for each ISO.

I believe the 4 piece NB filter set, unmounted in 36mm is around 3-400USD, and are highly regarded.

[DaveS]

Since you want to do imaging, then the first thing to say is buy a copy of "Making Every Photon Count" if you haven't already, here:

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/books/making-every-photon-count-steve-richards.html

Read it twice, pause and take a deep breath then read it again.

In the meantime I would say stay well away from fast imaging newts, at least until you've got a few years imaging under your belt. Yes they can be very good, but they're also exceedingly fussy about collimation and you'll need a very good coma correcter.

£1000 is a bit lean to get into (Semi) serious imaging, £2000 is better, but won't get you into CCD territory. A 694 based camera will come to around £2000 on its own, then add a filter wheel and filters, ouch! A HEQ5 is about £750. if you didn't want to go the 'frac route a 130P-DS and coma corrector will add another £260-£340 depending on which corrector you choose. This would leave funds for a modded DSLR and a LP filter, I would recommend an Astronomik CLS as starter.

Hope this gives you some food for thought.

Edit: Just had a look at your kit list, see you already have the HEQ5, and 150, great! If its the P-DS then you can start thinking about adding a guider for about £300 for a ST80 and QHY5-II. But a CCD may still be a bit of a stretch even at £2000. Possibly an Atik 383+ with a manual wheel and a minimum set of Baader filters depending on whether you want to go NB or not.

Still read MEPC.

[brrttpaul]

Thx for the help , I have "make every photon count" (read it to death), I also have the HEQ5 mount and a skywatcher 150 reflector, I also have a laptop running eqmod  and a nikon dslr. It was something though that I am pondering as I said initially I was going to get a refractor but it got me thinking that I already own a scope why not get a CCD. I think I will join a club theres 3 near me (within an hours drive) and learn a bit more , pros and cons etc. 

Cheers guys

Paul

[kalasinman]

"In the meantime I would say stay well away from fast imaging newts, at least until you've got a few years imaging under your belt. Yes they can be very good, but they're also exceedingly fussy about collimation and you'll need a very good coma correcter."

I agree if you are talking F/4 or less. At f/5 they are pretty fast and easy to collimate. I own an f/5 and it's my first scope ever. Takes me under 5 minutes to touch up if I havce to, but mostly stays right on.

Use your 150 indeed.

Coma corrector 100-$150 delivered.

[brrttpaul]

Yes I think you may be right there, I will probably stick with the original plan regarding the refractor as for  DSLR, CCD etc I totally understand that a mono ccd is the best out there but thats a lot of money at the end of the day its a hobby not an obsession, seen some good reviews on colour cams (think it was orion) and althought not a patch on mono ccd  it,s a starter

[kalasinman]

Yes I think you may be right there, I will probably stick with the original plan regarding the refractor as for  DSLR, CCD etc I totally understand that a mono ccd is the best out there but thats a lot of money at the end of the day its a hobby not an obsession, seen some good reviews on colour cams (think it was orion) and althought not a patch on mono ccd  it,s a starter

Get back to us in a year or 2 on that obsession thing, ok?

[brrttpaul]

lol

[happy-kat]

You have askywatcher star adventurer?

Why not just use that to image with a little 70ED? Would that be in weight limit. (Just thoughts).

Looking at what you have already bought have you actually exhausted using it and pushed it as far as it can go.

You have a tracking mount, DSLR and lenses already.

Where do you find it falling short on what you imagine achieving?

[brrttpaul]

think the 70 would be to much , I have dabbled with the 300 lens on it but not much success. saying that it could be my ball head it could do with replacing now. Dont get me wrong I enjoy what I have got but the reflector was never going to be my first choice it just came with the package. I am enjoying it and the more I think of it the more indecisive I become if that makes sense

[happy-kat]

Are other members managing to use a 300mm lens on it?

Well nothing is going anywhere while you take time to decide :-)

[Tinker1947]

Give the 300 lens more time, it should produce good sharp images, 3 - 5 minute exposures, mount the SA directly on top of your tripod, get it perfectly flat , and get the PA so Polaris sits in the bubble circle when you turn the mount 360' 

[brrttpaul]

Are other members managing to use a 300mm lens on it?

Well nothing is going anywhere while you take time to decide :-)

I have heard of one but as I said I need a better ball head the lens is 2.8 so its a fair chunk of glass, I did try using the counter weight bar with it but the weights are no where near heavy enough, I will persevere with it though and see how it goes. The only problem I really get with the SA is not knowing where things are in the sky (i,m getting better though) with the synscan i just type in what i want to see whereas the SA you  need to know where it is. I think once I get a clear night i may set both up view through my scope and rough guide with the SA

[happy-kat]

I bought 3 AE weights about 330gm each from astroboot for about £12 (come in a set of 3).

[brrttpaul]

I thought the weights that came with the SA would have been for its maximum load, would adding more weights strain the gears or would the counterbalance of the camera/lens cancel it out?