Should I persist with a spotting scope or get a "real" telescope?

[johngwheeler]

I've recently rekindled a childhood interest in astronomy, and wanted to get some advice on equipment choice. I'm not in a hurry, and happy to do naked eye / spotting-scope observation and visit an astronomy club to get a better idea of my areas (and degree) of interest before I invest more heavily.

I currently have a Celestron Regal M2 80mm ED spotting scope, which I also use for target shooting and general nature observation. I have been trying to use it for astronomical observation from a Sydney suburb, but have quickly come to realise the limitation of using a table-top tripod - almost useless anywhere except on a table or lying on the ground at shallow elevation angles. 

I've ordered what I hope is reasonably stable photo tripod that will allow appropriate elevation (Vanguard Abeo Pro). I’ll try taking this setup to darker sites.

However, I'm wondering really how useful an 80mm spotting scope (f6) will be. I had some fanciful notions that I could get a good quality short focal length eyepiece (e.g. 5mm) and use it for planetary observation, but I think I would be limited by the photo tripod, even if the optics held up to nearly 100x magnification. There is no finder on the spotter, and it's pretty hard to locate and track objects without some fine adjustment capability.

There's an almost overwhelming selection of telescopes available, and I have two main decisions:

1) What kind of telescope to buy for my particular situation? 

2) How much do I need to spend to have a good experience with the scope?

These are broad questions, I know, so here's some more detail:

I live in a city suburb, so it's often quite light-polluted, although there isn't a lot of really bright street lighting - mostly city glow from Sydney about 12km (7 miles) away. Ideally, I'd like to do some observation from my back garden which is at least not illuminated by any lights. Any setup needs to be small and convenient enough to easily take to more remote location, and quick to deploy.

i) Would a smaller refractor (e.g. 4") be more suitable for urban use than a 6-8" SCT / Maksutov in terms of usability in light-polluted skies? Or does the telescope type make no difference?

ii) What kind of telescope is the most portable with minimal setup time, if I were to seek a darker site? My thinking is that something that makes it easy to set up and view for a an hour or two would get a lot more use that something that takes 30 minutes to set up and take down each session

iii) I will probably start purely with visual observation, but I like the idea of astro-photography. I would ideally like a system that could grow for more advanced use, without having to replace the major components, i.e. a telescope and mount that could be added to (drive motors, computers, camera fittings etc. ) rather than need to be completely replaced.

iv) Regarding price, there is clearly a lot of complete rubbish out there. At the top end (Takahashi, Astro-Physics, Questar etc.), the price is prohibitive, and can't be justified for a beginner. I'm looking for good quality / value ratio in the middle range (like everyone else!). How much is a "reasonable" budget in order to get an instrument of good to very good optical quality and solid mechanical accuracy and reliability? I'm familiar with good quality rifle scopes and would expect to spend US$600-1200 to get something "decent" and up to $2000 for the top tier products. I imagine the story is similar with astronomical telescopes but with a far more expensive top-end. Good optics cost money, I know.  (My spotting scope was about US$600 and is mid-range). 

I would rather “buy once, cry once” and get something I really enjoy, than make do with inferior quality that doesn’t perform well.

The mount is an unknown quantity for me. I think I should go for a German Equatorial (ease of manual tracking, option of adding drive motors, and essential(?) for photography.) I also imagine that going heavier is better than lighter (so maybe "EQ5" size and above). Other than this I don't know what I should be looking at. One thought is that getting bigger than I need now would allow me to upgrade to a bigger scope later without changing the mount.

So, lots of questions in my mammoth post! If anyone has any recommendations or stories of their own experience, I'd love to hear them.

Many thanks,

John.

[Star Struck]

John,

I started with a good quality spotting scope but quickly realised its limitations.

I could not get high magnification eyepieces to come into focus, the lack of a finder proved troublesome and the no fine focus made life a bit tricky.

I bought a second hand 80ED astro telescope with a dual speed focusser and vixen style dovetail clamp to fit it to my astro tripod. Now all of the limitations of the spotting scope have gone away and I I am enjoying astronomy much more.

Tony

[kalasinman]

10x70 bins on a tripod beat a spotting scope.

[dfish]

John -- I too am a beginner, so take this for whatever it's worth... I too live in a light polluted orange zone, but am I a bit more interested in lunar and wide field astrophotography, as I tend to do visual observing with some yachting and astro binoculars that I have (the largest being 15x70)...

That said, some of the reading I've done and advice I've been given has gotten me seriously thinking about stepping up to a very capable mount such as the Sirisu EQ-G -- if you dig into the reviews, I expect you'll find as I did, that the mount is very capable for both visual and AP (within its rated load) and that the refractor in the Sirius bundle has a pretty good reputation:

Orion Sirius ED80 EQ-G Computerized GoTo Refractor Telescope for USD $!575 / AUD $2090

http://www.telescope.com/Orion-Sirius-ED80-EQ-G-Computerized-GoTo-Refractor-Telescope/p/24281.uts?keyword=sirius

You might also  consider trying your spotting scope on the mount in which case the cost of the mount only would be USD $1200 / AUD $1590.

I have an inexpensive Meade 70mm refractor and some M42 camera lenses derived from spotting scopes that I may mess about with on a solid mount like the Sirisu, before deciding on the telescope purchase... and for whatever it's worth I was able to dramatically improve the performance of the simple tripod that came with the Meade by getting some of those vibration pads.

Cheers,
Dave

[ronin]

How about the ES Alu Essential 102mm.

It is a triplet, f/7, not too big and not to heavy but a decent aperture.

At f/7 some would say a bit slow for imaging later but not really "slow"

The glass is not FPL-53, but they cost more and at f/7 you do not need it.

Mountwise the EQ5 is nice but may be a bit too light for imaging, and the 102 is bigger (for visual) then an 80mm. Equally it is said to be 5Kg and that is not a lot.

Next up is the HEQ5, they are not easily portable, I have an HEQ5 and decided to get an EQ5 for portability.

How about the iOptron ZEQ25 ?

Will handle 25lbs, 12Kg so scope+bits is easy, also it has GPS which means a bit less setting up unless it fails I suppose.

The problem is wanting visual and it sounds like eventually imaging, thje requirements are different, and imaging tends to be more costly.

[johngwheeler]

Thanks for the advice! It sounds like I will probably get further with the hobby with a decent scope, and that I should be budgeting for about $1500 at least. This sounds reasonable. I'll experiment a bit more with my spotting scope, and try other peoples' gear to see what I like most before "taking the plunge"!

Thanks,

John.

[laudropb]

Good idea. Take your time. Try to see as many scopes/ mounts as possible before spending your hard earned cash, but a good pair of 10x50 bins will never go wrong.

[L8-Nite]

Check to see if there's a local Astronomical Society or group in your area and find out when and where there is observing session. You should be able to have a look at and through a variety of scopes to get an idea of what would be suitable for you. 

[nightspace]

Hi John

For the last few years I've been coming out to Aus with an Opticstar AR80 and a photographic tripod. In July up in New England the southern skies are spectacular. My little portable set up has never disappointed. But I am now planning to upgrade to an Opticstar AR90 Gold with a small Ascension Alt Az mount for my portable set up. I think I'll stilll be able to bring it out on the plane fairly easily. These are good quality pieces which cost comparatively little. By the way, I used to have a 300mm dob, but it didn'get used very much. And it never made it out to Aus!

John

[happy-kat]

I would get a red dot finder and attach it your spotting scope (sticky pad), then allign it to your scope. That would help enormously with using it at night.

I personally prefer a tripod for viewing which has slow motion controls this makes it a lot easier at high mag. So it would be a dedicated astro tripod not a photo one.

Can your spotting scope be used with normal 1.25 eye pieces?

I would use it with a chair for observing to be as comfortable as possible seeing as it is 45 and not 90 degree angle.

Only a 80mm ED should be nice at a dark location. My much cheaper 80mm refractor can show the main cloud bands and 4 main moons on Jupiter for example in my urban garden, so for me I would use what you have whilst you decide where next.