despondancy

[davebird2003]

While I was researching astronomy & what I would need to take up this hobby I was entranced by images of the planets & the stars on various websites relating to this hobby.

After deciding this was a hobby I would like (it involves a lot of sitting down) & my wife buying me a telescope for Christmas I thought I would give it a bash , after a few clear nights which there have been very few lately , I am becoming very despondent  & am wondering if I have the makings of a amateur astrologist ??

The rare times that I have managed to actually view an object I have been disappointed with what I have seen , the images I have seen are nothing like in books & on websites (sometimes nothing more that a dot or blur) .

Can anyone help re-kindle the passion /patience with words of wisdom?

[kev100]

Hi Dave,

Can you tell us a bit more about your setup? What's the scope? How's the light pollution where you are?

Kev

[damnut]

Hi Dave,

You sometimes need to temper your expectations, the hubble type pictures that some of the imagers produce and share on SGL are amazing but takes skill and hours of capture. To give you some idea of what to expect at the eyepiece have a look at :--  http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm     remember to click on visual view. Type in your scope and eyepiece data.

[laudropb]

I am afraid that the images you see through your eyepiece will never match that seen in magazines or books

[DirkSteele]

As Damnut states, expectations really need to be tempered.  Glorious technicolour images seen in books and online are not at all representative of what will be seen naked eye.  As you mention you are having trouble finding stuff, consider a good beginners book like "Turn Left at Orion" which will teach you star hopping skills need to find the object of interest.

As for how to be inspired, a couple of suggestions.  One is practice.  It is amazing how much more detail an experienced observer will see than a newbie.  Master the art of averted vision and really take your time with the view.  

Second, I take great inspiration from having knowledge of the object I am observing.  If it is a distant galaxy, just think those photons of light left the host galaxy millions of years ago and their journey ended when they struck your retina!  That is pretty cool.  Think about the size of the object, what is the event that brought into being (supernova remnant, planetary nebula, emission nebula, reflection nebula, globular clusters, open clusters and galaxies, as well as beautiful double stars, the list just goes on and on).  I believe when you combine all of that together with the thrill of observing the wondrous natural phenomena seen in the universe which are all driven by the laws of physics and you have one very compelling hobby on your hands!

So don't give up just yet.  Good luck and clear skies.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I am afraid that the images you see through your eyepiece will never match that seen in magazines or books

Yet strangely, at the same time they can be far more captivating than viewing an image on a screen. I find I get a kick out of hunting down faint fuzzies that I might more easily find using Google.

[xtreemchaos]

hi mate and welcome.i agree with Michael what you see through the eye piece is more captivating than a image,but saying that i do get a lot of enjoyment fom images,and images push me to find stuff with the eye piece"if that make any sence" clear skys..charl..

[ghostdance]

Essential reading:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/

And give it time...seeing the planets and starfields with your own eyes in real time beats any photo for sheer thrill-&-awe value (astrophotographs are superb tho, for showing what our eyes can't see. I use them to inform what I'm seeing at the eyepeice...).

But it takes awhile to pick up small details. Trust us, the first time you see Jupiters' Great Red Spot or the Ring Nebula (tiny, tiny smoke-ring, but fab!) or the densely packed nest of M13, the swirls of M42,  let alone the blue/yellow Albireo twins...well, it will immeasurably lift your spirits to put it mildly (& for once I'm not talking about a good cocktail)...

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Essential reading:

http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/196278-what-can-i-expect-to-see/

And give it time...seeing the planets and starfields with your own eyes in real time beats any photo for sheer thrill-&-awe value (astrophotographs are superb tho, for showing what our eyes can't see. I use them to inform what I'm seeing at the eyepeice...).

But it takes awhile to pick up small details. Trust us, the first time you see Jupiters' Great Red Spot or the Ring Nebula (tiny, tiny smoke-ring, but fab!) or the densely packed nest of M13, the swirls of M42,  let alone the blue/yellow Albireo twins...well, it will immeasurably lift your spirits to put it mildly (& for once I'm not talking about a good cocktail)...

And at the end of an observing session I lift my spirits further with a tot of single malt whisky, whilst completing my observing notes. Bliss

[ghostdance]

And at the end of an observing session I lift my spirits further with a tot of single malt whisky, whilst completing my observing notes. Bliss

I absolutely agree

Which reminds me, I need a new bottle of Lagavulin...

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I absolutely agree

Which reminds me, I need a new bottle of Lagavulin...

Just the one?

[MAN or ASTROMAN]

I absolutely agree

Which reminds me, I need a new bottle of Lagavulin...

A man after my own heart. Slainte!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

A man after my own heart. Slainte!

There is a good offer on Ardbeg Uigeadail over here at the moment. Might go for that one (again )

[hgjevans]

Second, I take great inspiration from having knowledge of the object I am observing.  If it is a distant galaxy, just think those photons of light left the host galaxy millions of years ago and their journey ended when they struck your retina!  That is pretty cool.  Think about the size of the object, what is the event that brought into being (supernova remnant, planetary nebula, emission nebula, reflection nebula, globular clusters, open clusters and galaxies, as well as beautiful double stars, the list just goes on and on).  I believe when you combine all of that together with the thrill of observing the wondrous natural phenomena seen in the universe which are all driven by the laws of physics and you have one very compelling hobby on your hands!

Yes! +1 to that, with bells on.  Cultivate that interest, because once it takes root any glimpse at all of that distant nebula, or galaxy, or whatever it might be, becomes special and memorable. 

And I concur with Ghostdance's little list, above. Get the most out of those targets that are easy and impressive in any scope, and then the harder and less 'in your face' objects will begin to enthral you as well. This isn't the best time of year for dark skies, but M13, the Ring Nebula, and Albireo are all particularly well placed at the moment. Even with a full moon in midsummer I've had a great time the last couple of nights getting first light through a new pair of binoculars, and though I've viewed those three a thousand times before they were all right at the top of my list. It's remarkable what you can see if you persevere. But as others have said, just don't be misled by what a camera can see, building up an image over time - our eyes just don't work that way.

[ghostdance]

There is a good offer on Ardbeg Uigeadail over here at the moment. Might go for that one (again )

Not to derail the thread (as if...!) but did you ever try Ardbeg Supernova (apt!)?

Superb...

A man after my own heart. Slainte!

And to you too

[J_N_Y]

Hi Dave

As the others have mentioned - your telescope will never give you 'naked eye' views like you see in books, websites or even here on the forums. many of the images in the Astrophotography section have been digitally altered to be more colourful, sharper and clearer.

That aside - I couldn't agree more than with the comments that seeing for yourself through a telescope is captivating. you will no doubt have seen the fab images of Saturn throughout the site - but as an idea of a 'raw' image (and my first glimpse of) Saturn - this is what I saw last week:

 

My favourite target at the moment is the moon. Though the moon and planets may be considered a beginners thing - I'm a beginner and love it. I think setting myself little targets or challenges is what keeps me going. trying to find the Apollo landing sites on the moon for example (just a rough idea, obviously not the actual debris left over!).

I love researching what I have seen, setting challenges and things rather than just looking at 'stuff'.

The 'what to expect' thread is brilliant advice. other than that, I just try and make my observing as dynamic as possible. And enjoy the experience rather than just the end results

 

[ghostdance]

Nice image J_N_Y...I've never been able to capture Saturn as good as that (or much else planetary tbh - comes from merely holding my little compact to the ep. Must try harder ) 

[slim80]

Hi Dave.Stick with it.it takes time to learn the hobby but it also very rewarding.we all have to start somewhere.As others have said the images you see on here and in books etc take time and patience and yes it can be very testing at times but its worth it in the end

[egris]

Although they will never look as good as images or photos finding and observing objects with telescopes is also very rewarding. 

[glowjet]

Hi Dave, I recall you had problems in your introduction in the Welcome section on the 4 June last, you were experiencing difficulties with your  scope, "UK Hobby Scope manufactures spec 50 mm objective 600mm focal length, plastic construction"  There was some positive replies for you. Your latest thread however, placed in the Welcome section, has been moved to Observing,  which is more appropriate to your current troubles.

I am afraid the many beautiful images of objects in outer space, taken by many of the World's largest telescopes and also those by accomplished imagers in and outside this forum, has been the lure of many, to become involved in Astronomy, expecting to at least observe something similar, only to be disappointed with a very faint tiny patch, a pinpoint of light or at best a very small circle representing a planet. General every day commercial outlets, advertising as part of their wares, telescopes with accompanying space images in the guise of Astronomy, does not help matters either.

You have to remember that what you are looking at, is not just a long way off, but beyond this planet at so vast a distance that it is often difficult for you or your brain to come to terms with the figures, it is the joy of finding and locating such a subject within a Constellation, that is so rewarding, it is your fuzzy patch and you found it.

Over many years I have acquired a high class astronomical outfit with excellent quality lenses, but it gets used infrequently, because of the ease and simplicity of using my two pairs of tripod mounted binoculars, the magnification is much less than your telescope, but I am quite happy to span the heavens in search of Comets, deep space objects, star clusters and many other items of interest.

If you come to the conclusion that you are are not happy with your outfit, but you would still like to continue with Astronomy, then your best course is to visit your nearest Astronomy club, there you will be able to talk with like minded people, use the club or members telescopes, giving you a better understanding of what Astronomy is all about

[ronin]

Found this a few weeks back, and it explains the situation well.

http://bigtelescope.blogspot.co.uk/2015/02/christmas-and-telescopes-how-to-avoid.html

The first of Orion is a bit colourful but the real one next to it is about right.

The first Jupiter is what you expect, the second Jupiter is normal and the third Jupiter is through a bigger scope then most people have - I guess 16" or above.

This "problem" rarely gets across, others here will like me have lost count of the posts saying the new observer cannot see any colour in ABC and is there something wrong with their scopes, is a new eyepiece required.

Hubble images are "unreal", put "Orion Nebula images" into google and then scroll through the thousands of images, some are red, some blue, some green, some mauve, some so garish they are painful. The orion cannot be each colour that they appear in - it cannot be red and blue and green at the same time. Every one of those is artifical. Someone has sat at a PC with a photo shopping package and spent several hours processing them.

[brantuk]

I'll second John's comments above. There's nothing like getting out there with like minded folks to re-enthuse your motivation and widen your experience of equipment, observing techniques, finding stuff, and help using your own scope. So do take his advice and join a club.

Another way to get your interest going is to visit a star party. It can be a day or night visit - usually free or small entry charge. Get around some of the observers during the day for a friendly astro chat, ask loads of questions about what they plan doing overnight, and you'll find many will invite you back in the darkness for a look through their scopes.

You're not the only one who starts the hobby and finds there's a lot more to it than meets the eye. There's a lot going against it like lifestyle, work routines, weather conditions, family commitments, and your own personal motivation. But so much to gain once you know what to expect and how to go about it.

I treat it very much as a casual thing where I learn stuff when it's difficult to get outside, then go and look at stuff or try new techniques, and socialise, when conditions allow. It really doesn't have to be like a chain round your neck. Expect your interest to wain now and then - mine certainly does - but it always comes back.

[ollypenrice]

Hubble images are "unreal", put "Orion Nebula images" into google and then scroll through the thousands of images, some are red, some blue, some green, some mauve, some so garish they are painful. The orion cannot be each colour that they appear in - it cannot be red and blue and green at the same time. Every one of those is artifical. Someone has sat at a PC with a photo shopping package and spent several hours processing them.

This is, in my view, a misrepresentation of the truth and perpetuates a widespread misunderstanding of astrophotography.

1) Hubble images of nebulae are usually colour maps (false colour images) which do not pretend to be naturalistic. Different gasses are represented by different colours just as in geology maps where different rocks are represented by different colours. A goeolgy map is not trying to look like an aerial photograph.

2) Natural colour images (synthesized from RGB filters whether by the mono imager at his/her PC or in-camera by the  one shot colour camera maker's software) should be pretty consistent and, in my opinion, they are. There is no great variation between this or that digital camera's rendition of a landscape and, similarly, there is no great difference between natural colour images of M42. Sure there are differences but they are rarely great and, when they are, some imagers have got it wrong. They may not have colour balanced their work, they may have had their data skewed by light pollution or light pollution filters, or whatever. But experienced imagers from dark sites get very consistent results. I know this because I process raw data co-owned by various other imagers and we get incredibly similar results from the raw.

3) Those who don't understand what we do in Photoshop seem to think we paint in whatever colour we like. This is nonsense. We use Photoshop to get the colour right, using an assortment of calibration techniques. We don't try to get it right by making it up and I confess that, although you can turn red into blue in Photoshop, I have no idea how to do that.

Cameras show more faint detail and more colour for one very simple, innocent and invention-free reason. They can accumulate light over time when the eye cannot.

Olly

[gnomus]

As regards what one should be able to see, I quite agree that most of the time you are not going to get what you see in books and magazines. This is especially true for the faint fuzzies. On the other hand the moon rarely, if ever, disappoints. Jupiter and Saturn are often spectacular. As to things out of the solar sytem, why not concentrate on brighter objects such as open clusters. These are wonderful things to look at.

When I started out, I kept reading about 'double stars'. I have to admit that I couldn't see what all the fuss was about - two stars close together - so what? So I didn't bother with them. Then I decided to take a gander at Albireo.....

As to the fainter fuzzies, I think most of the pleasure comes from understanding what it is you are looking at, followed swiftly by the wonder that you can see anything at all.

[Steve Ward]

To be brutally honest I fear that the majority of your woes stem from the 50mm Plastic objective on the front of your telescope . . . 

Whereas in daylight it might appear to be doing some kind of job when it comes to pinpoints of light such as stars I doubt that it will ever perform in a way that will cure your despondency ,

I would suggest popping along to see the folk at the Shropshire Astronomical Society   (  http://www.shropshire-astro.com/main/home-page/about-us)  and having a look through a selection of 'scopes , this will give you a better idea of what can be seen than written replies from us here . . .