Larger Refractor as First Telescope

[Spacefreak1974]

I've heard that given I live in the city I should get a refractor. Also i've heard that refractors are the most dependable in terms of them not losing adjustments along that given that they are sealed their internals don't need to be cleaned very often.

I've seen the following scopes online and would like your opinions on them. 

Meade LX-70 R5 4.7" (120MM) Reflector with Eq Mount (and some accessories (2) eyepieces)

http://www.adorama.com/MDLX70R5.html

*Looks like a good starter set with a mount and a couple eyepieces for $699

Bresser Messier AR-127S (comes with an 2" eyepiece but no mount) 

(Explore Scientific) 

http://www.adorama.com/ESBR27635.html

*$499 without mount

Orion 120ST with mount and acccessories

http://www.telescope.com/Orion-AstroView-120ST-Equatorial-Refractor-Telescope/p/9005.uts

*Looks like a good starter set for $599. Seems like the best deal overall

[ronin]

The Meade looks interesting, the other 2 are f/5 scopes and I do not like f/5 achromats - too much CA.

One alternative is the Bressier 127L, it is f/8.

So my opinion is the Meade or throw in an alternative of the Bresser 127L.

[Spacefreak1974]

I've heard that given I live in the city I should get a refractor. Also i've heard that refractors are the most dependable in terms of them not losing adjustments along that given that they are sealed their internals don't need to be cleaned very often.

I've seen the following scopes online and would like your opinions on them. 

Meade LX-70 R5 4.7" (120MM) Reflector with Eq Mount (and some accessories (2) eyepieces)

http://www.adorama.com/MDLX70R5.html

*Looks like a good starter set with a mount and a couple eyepieces for $699

Bresser Messier AR-127S (comes with an 2" eyepiece but no mount) 

(Explore Scientific) 

http://www.adorama.com/ESBR27635.html

*$499 without mount

Orion 120ST with mount and acccessories

http://www.telescope.com/Orion-AstroView-120ST-Equatorial-Refractor-Telescope/p/9005.uts

*Looks like a good starter set for $599. Seems like the best deal overall

The Meade looks interesting, the other 2 are f/5 scopes and I do not like f/5 achromats - too much CA.

One alternative is the Bressier 127L, it is f/8.

So my opinion is the Meade or throw in an alternative of the Bresser 127L.

I should have added this one as well. I thought I would get focal length questions. I like the idea of the shortys for portability but if its going to mess with images I may not want to go that direction. 

Celestron Omni XLT 120

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=485285&gclid=CLm4jMu2tcYCFQ4paQodZiIOOw&is=REG&Q=&A=details

Looks like some decent reviews out there. I keep hearing Meade's LX-70 line is very entry level and probably most of what Celestron is as well. I know everything both put out are made by Synta, JOC or someone else in China and painted differently, so i'm trying to avoid something that doesn't give good service. I've heard that the Omnis are Skywatchers (even use the similar blue paint)

[xtreemchaos]

+1 for bresser ar127l,i have one, great scope well made and easy to use, the ca ant too bad.

[ronin]

Simply that an f/8 achromat will exhibit less CA then an f/5 one.

Would half expect the Meade and ES to be from the same source, Meade and ES/JOC are somewhat interwoven.

Just cannot work out by how much.

A lot will depend on how CA bothers you, some people scream when it appears, others do not care at all.

One thing to remember is that CA is worst on bright things, like stars - they just output enough light to cause it to be noticeable. A DSO does not have the output for it to generally be apparent.

The difference in weight between f/5 and f/8 is minimal and the length difference is also small.

[haitch]

CA will probably only be an issue on bright objects. In those circumstances you stop it down a bit to sacrifice a little resolution to save some CA.

Actually is it were me I'd go f8 or slower for a visual achromat like has been said - CA really bother me and I can't see that the fringe filters do much either.

[spaceboy]

I've heard that given I live in the city I should get a refractor. Also i've heard that refractors are the most dependable in terms of them not losing adjustments along that given that they are sealed their internals don't need to be cleaned very often.

???? The lens needs cleaning on a refractor just as Newtonian mirrors do. Both can be knocked out of collimation but unlike Newtonians refractors don't always come with collimateable lens cells.

[haitch]

Should add - seeing as I have an f6.5 frac in my sig - it is only for casual use and visitors at my gite in France.

[Spacefreak1974]

I'm really considering the Celestron. Appears to be a great value

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=485285&gclid=CLG01MfStcYCFQ2OaQodBSoKDA&is=REG&A=details&Q=

[jetstream]

Off topic somewhat, but have you considered a 6" or 8" dob?

[John]

Off topic somewhat, but have you considered a 6" or 8" dob?

I really like refractors but that would be my suggestion for a 1st scope. The Skywatcher 8" F/6 dobsonian is quite possibly the most popular scope on this forum and for good reasons

http://www.adorama.com/SKWS11610N.html

[Spacefreak1974]

Off topic somewhat, but have you considered a 6" or 8" dob?

I haven't as I really don't have a good place to put one. I think i'd be spending a lot of time cleaning it prior to going out. Aren't they wide open and not protected from the elements?

[xtreemchaos]

as long as you put the end cap on when your finnished a dob will be ok.

[John]

I haven't as I really don't have a good place to put one. I think i'd be spending a lot of time cleaning it prior to going out. Aren't they wide open and not protected from the elements?

They have dust caps over the tubes when not in use. The objective lens of a refractor is much closer to the top end of the tube than the primary mirror of a newtonian / dobsonian. A dobsonian has a smaller "footprint" than an equatorially mounted refractor.

[jetstream]

I haven't as I really don't have a good place to put one. I think i'd be spending a lot of time cleaning it prior to going out. Aren't they wide open and not protected from the elements?

These things (dobs) are tough- they do not need cleaning often and will take cold weather much better than a refractor. My half decent refractors have issues in extreme cold- lens cells etc. Also when bringing a frac in from the cold, you better have it in an insulated case, to slow down the warming. The dob, just bring it in...

The dob is faster to set up and use and has what I think is the most stable observing platform- they are rock solid. Refractors can have "settling time" when moved. I do love good refractors though, don't get me wrong. I personally think that between the fracs mentioned and the SW 6" or 8" dob the dob would out do it handily, very handily.

I don't mean any disrespect to anyone who owns these refractors... this is just my opinion.

[mikeskor]

I would avoid the Dob. I have a 10 inch. They are heavy to lug around and need constant collimation. Also they are manual and a constant frustration for finding objects. If your budget allows I would suggest the Skywatcher 120mm ED refractor with VX mount and tripod. With Skeye on your telephone to learn the night sky, you will have great goto capacity with the skywatcher and VX. It is also very usable for eventual astrophotography.

[spaceboy]

Variety is the spice of life they say and it's always good to see how one thing that works for one doesn't necessarily work for another.

I have owned and own dobs as well as Newtonians / refractors on EQ mounts. They all have their advantages and disadvantages and it is down to personal preference and what you want to observe at the end of the day.

Personally I think an 8" dob with some tweaking out of the box is the best advice. What ever you choose is going to be a learning experience it just depends on how much you are into the hobby and how much you want to learn. Most people are put off by collimation but that is only because they lack the confidence. Confidence comes with experience so the more you do it the less you think and just do.

An ED refractor no matter how good, isn't going to show you what an 8" dob will and that means the dob will keep your interest for longer.

[djpaul]

Another vote for the Slywatcher 120ed here

Well worth the money

Ive seen some shops doing deals on them at present 

You might pick one up secondhand for approx £700

Paul

[Spacefreak1974]

For the Skywatcher 120ed $2500 with a mount is a little rich for my blood at the moment. What are your thoughts on an 8" SCT? Wouldn't that give me the best of both worlds..kinda a hybrid dob/refractor with easier portability to boot? I see quite a few 80's model Celestron and Meade SCT's every once and a while for $500 on a mount

[jetstream]

They (SCT) are a good choice too, but you still have the mount to contend with... make sure it works if you buy it used. I would buy a C6/C8 before the scopes you mentioned, its all about money and how much you want to spend. A C8 on a nice goto mount would be a great scope, just more cash. For the money ($355.00) it is hard to beat the SW8" dob.

The SW120ED are excellent but they are very long and need a substantial mount (cash). Do you want a goto mount for sure?

[Spacefreak1974]

For the Skywatcher 120ed $2000+ with a mount is a little rich for my blood at the moment. What are your thoughts on an 8" SCT? Wouldn't that give me the best of both worlds..kinda a hybrid dob/refractor with easier portability to boot? I see quite a few 80's model Celestron and Meade SCT's every once and a while for $500 on a mount

[Spacefreak1974]

They (SCT) are a good choice too, but you still have the mount to contend with... make sure it works if you buy it used. I would buy a C6/C8 before the scopes you mentioned, its all about money and how much you want to spend. A C8 on a nice goto mount would be a great scope, just more cash. For the money ($355.00) it is hard to beat the SW8" dob.

The SW120ED are excellent but they are very long and need a substantial mount (cash). Do you want a goto mount for sure?

I don't think I want a goto as i would like to learn how to align and find things using charts, but would like to have a mount that either has a tracking motor or is easily adaptable  to a tracking motor. I know most of the newer Celestron CG mounts as well as the Orion mounts can be easily adapted to run on a motor drive plug and play. The old SCT's on the wedge mounts had motor tracking as well

[scarp15]

The classic 80's celestron 8 SCT with its fork mount, wedge n' tripod,  slow mo controls and 9V driven RA clock drive motor are both mechanically (and frequently) optically very good and often great value for money. Compact and quick to set up, they require a little dampen down time between focusing, they will require a dew shield. The C8 will retain its collimation very well and provide views of nice tight star fields. Of course these are not go-to, if that is what you would prefer, the ota could be removed and put onto a CG5 or similar with the correct dovetail configuration, if that is what you would prefer for imaging.

[LukeSkywatcher]

I really like refractors but that would be my suggestion for a 1st scope. The Skywatcher 8" F/6 dobsonian is quite possibly the most popular scope on this forum and for good reasons

http://www.adorama.com/SKWS11610N.html

If John who LOVES his refractor scopes tells you to buy a Dob.............i would listen to him.