Should I buy a computerised Telescope?

[kpreilly]

Hi, first post here from a new novice and frustrated beginner!

I bought a Celestron 130EQ Telescope a while back having read positive reviews which promised it would give me stunning views of the moon and nearby planets.  So far I’ve been able to get some reasonably sharp views of the moon but that’s about it

I should stress I’m sure it’s a fine telescope and my frustrations are all down to my lack of patience and understanding of the complex “starter” instructions. I’ve spent as long as I can trying to get my head round Latitude, Polar Orientation, DEC, RA etc. but to be honest I’m finding it all very confusing and after many evenings of fruitless scanning the sky and searching It’s hard not to give up all together but I’m wondering if a computerised telescope may be the answer for me

Having browsed forums it seems most experts advise learning these basics and teaching yourself to navigate the sky is the best way to start and will benefit me in the future but to be honest the thought of a computerised telescope taking me straight to what I want to observe is very appealing right now. At this stage I’m not thinking about photography ,I just want to be able to easily and consistently view the planets and nearby stars

So I’m hoping some experts on here can help me with a couple of questions;

1. Am I being naïve? Will a computerised telescope be as easy as punch in the coordinates and you are there?

2. If it’s advisable to buy one what would be a good starter model (max about £350) to get me on my way

Many thanks

Kevin

[PeterCPC]

Hi

That was my first scope and i understand your feelings. I rapidly decided that I needed a GOTO scope and it does make life so much easier. However, it's not reallAy a case of punch in the coordinates and that's it I'm afraid. If you really aren't thinking about DSO photography then a computerised Alt/Az mount will be simpler to understand and set up. You will still be able to take planetary images but not really DSOs because they need guiding.

Even with computerised telescopes you will still need to input time and location details unless it has GPS. A GOTO should get you reasonably near or on your target depending on the accuracy of the GOTO. 

I found that having a GOTO scope actually helped in my understanding of the issues you write about and saved a lot of time which can be important with our weather. Maybe something like the Skymax 127 would be worth considering for that sort of budget.

Peter

[ronin]

A goto is fine, you will learn where everything is, basically no-one actually trusts the things so everyone decides first what to look for and has a good idea of where it is. In reality you have to have some idea if you want it to go to anything.

It is a bit strange but you could point a fully manual dobsonian at a cluster and actually have no idea what it is other then a cluster, with a goto you at least have to give it a name to go to. Even if Caldwell 14 means very little, you have a name.

A goto is computerised but that does not mean a great deal these days. Alignment of goto's is not automatic, we actually have to do some of it ourselves, worse still we have to actually have some idea of what we are doing. One of the most important aspects is read what you are asked to provide. Sounds simple, but I guess 30% of goto alignments fail initially because whoever assumed something and did not read what was actually asked. Usually one of Date, the Long/Lat, DST or Timezone.

Goto's need power, again obvious but another slightly odd aspect that gets forgotten.

None are perfect, with the exception of lots of money you cannot have everything.

The goto format I would prefer does in general not exist, a reasonable refractor on a goto mount.

If you intend to ever go imaging then you need to look at the equitorial mounts.

[Davey-T]

You can get something like a Celestron Sky Prodigy that you just stick in the garden and it finds out where it is and aligns itself, costs over a thousand pounds and you're paying for all those bells and whistles rather than optical quality.

Dave

[Joel Shepherd]

A goto or "push-to" scope can save a fair amount of hunting around. The caveat is that the scope still has to be aligned in some way and that usually requires at least some basic familiarity with the sky and an ability to center a selected star in your eyepiece.

If you want to try to work with your scope as-is a little more, here are a few suggestions.

First, for visual use (i.e. not astrophotography), you don't need to worry greatly about polar alignment. Find out what your latitude is and set the altitude -- vertical angle -- of the scope to that (there should be a scale on the scope to help). Get it as close as you can but it doesn't have to be exact. Unless you take the scope a significant distance from home, you don't have to touch this adjustment again.

When you go out at night, put the telescope in its resting position (counterweights at their lowest point), aim it roughly north and that will be good enough. At that point, you can forget about RA, Dec, polar alignment, yadda yadda and start observing.

The next thing is to find a target. It looks like the finder is a red-dot finder with no magnification. Since it's permanently attached to the scope, it should be well-aligned so you don't need to worry about that. Start with a bright target -- Jupiter (in the west in evening), Venus (lower in the west), Saturn (low in the south-east) -- and work the scope around (leaving the mount/tripod in place: just moving the scope and weights) to bring your target into view in the finder and then under the red dot.

Your scope appears to come with 20mm and 10mm eyepiece. Use the 20mm one initially. In fact, I would consider getting a 25mm or 32mm eyepiece as well. Larger eyepieces have give less magnification but reveal more area of the sky (larger field of view). When you're just trying to find a target, more field of view helps, so start searching with a larger eyepiece.

Assuming your target is lined up in the finder, you should be able to view it immediately with the 20mm eyepiece. Turn the focusing knobs until (unintuitively) the object is a small as possible in the eyepiece: at that point it is in focus.

If the target is lined up in the finder (centered under the red dot) but not visible in the eyepiece, then you have some kind of alignment problem: most likely the finder being out of alignment with the scope. That seems unlikely for this scope however.

Once you've found the target, you can use the 10mm eyepiece for more magnification.

A couple other ideas to consider:

  * "Turn Left at Orion" and "Night Watch" are two books I found helpful for locating deep sky objects (targets outside our solar system). A simple planisphere has been helpful as well. Just learning a few constellations can be a big help in getting oriented.

  * You might consider working with some binoculars as well. A good binocular can help you identify targets before trying to find them in the scope.

FInally, patience is hard but it is rewarded. I spent several months when I was first getting started trying and failing to find targets. Part of the problem was that I was trying to find very dim things (galaxies, large nebula, etc.). When I turned my attention to star clusters and small bright nebula like the Ring nebula (now coming into view in the east), my success rate improved a great deal. Learning constellations, stars, and how to navigate around them with the finder helped a lot as well.

But the stars and so on aren't going anywhere fast, so if you can't find something tonight, it'll still be there tomorrow, next week or next year when you're ready to take another run at it.

Finally, finally, if you do decide to go with some kind of goto setup, note that you can probably just replace your mount. You don't necessarily need a whole new telescope. Your scope is decent and should give pretty good views on a lot of targets.

Hope this helps -- Joel.

[happy-kat]

a book like turn left at orion breaks the sky into sections so you can study a small area at a time.

why not see about getting a straight forward to use altaz mount for your existing telescope either new, second hand or see what astroboot have.

[kpreilly]

Thanks everyone for your quick replys and great advice

I'm going to have another attempt tonight with my current telescope using Joel's suggestions (why can't Celstron write it down so simply!) assuming the clear skys here in South of England hold out and will start researching GOTO options

Will let you know how I get on!

Thanks

Kevin

[Highburymark]

One of the most frustrating things about go-tos when you are trying to learn the ropes is the often appallingly complicated instructions. Why should technology that is intended to make life easier be explained so badly?

[Sonicfishcake42]

I bought my first scope a few days ago, set it up for the first time last night, pointed the thing at 3 stars (2 of which turned out to be planets) and the scope was fully aligned. I found it extremely simple, i wouldn't even be able to tell you which way is north half the time and found having the go-to function incredibly helpful. 

I use the Celestron Evolution which has wifi built in so you can use a free app search by favorites, most popular, planets, moons, clusters, nebula etc... tap on your smart phone or tablet and the scope centers the object... gives you the designation and the nicknames of said nebula/clusters etc so you learn that M1 is the crab nebula, it also tells you what star constellation it is located in.

So you learn where it is, what's it's called, nickname etc. Another advantage is the scope automatically tracks the target as the earth rotates. not having tracking a planet can be gone out of the eyepiece in a minute... having go to keeps the object centered and tracked saving time from having to re-find the object you were looking at

Aligning took me about 5 minutes as the EVO doesn't need you to input time/date/co-ordinations etc. I appreciate some more traditional astronomers would prefer newbies to have a non-go to scope and 'learn the skies' but certainly in UK weather clear cloudness skies are precious and not finding a target I'm sure has put many people off astronomy never to return. 

i'd thoroughly recommend a go-to telescope! Celestron from my experience are great quality and easy to use

[Scooot]

For purely visual a Push To Dob is very simple to use. There's no need to polar align and they don't need to be level. You just push them around the sky as normal but a handset/phone or tablet tells you where the scope is pointing and the whereabouts of your targets. The only off the shelf version I'm aware of is the Orion intelliscopes http://www.scsastro.co.uk/catalogue/orion-skyquest-xt8-intelliscope.htm?term=xt8&gclid=CJD4purS6sUCFWMUwwodPiIAvw

Otherwise it's buying a dob and fitting something like Argo Navis or Astro Devices Nexus, I have the Nexus.

http://www.astrodevices.com/products/Nexus/Nexus.html

They'll all be more than £350 I'm afraid.

[Highburymark]

I bought my first scope a few days ago, set it up for the first time last night, pointed the thing at 3 stars (2 of which turned out to be planets) and the scope was fully aligned. I found it extremely simple, i wouldn't even be able to tell you which way is north half the time and found having the go-to function incredibly helpful. 

I use the Celestron Evolution which has wifi built in so you can use a free app search by favorites, most popular, planets, moons, clusters, nebula etc... tap on your smart phone or tablet and the scope centers the object... gives you the designation and the nicknames of said nebula/clusters etc so you learn that M1 is the crab nebula, it also tells you what star constellation it is located in.

So you learn where it is, what's it's called, nickname etc. Another advantage is the scope automatically tracks the target as the earth rotates. not having tracking a planet can be gone out of the eyepiece in a minute... having go to keeps the object centered and tracked saving time from having to re-find the object you were looking at

Aligning took me about 5 minutes as the EVO doesn't need you to input time/date/co-ordinations etc. I appreciate some more traditional astronomers would prefer newbies to have a non-go to scope and 'learn the skies' but certainly in UK weather clear cloudness skies are precious and not finding a target I'm sure has put many people off astronomy never to return. 

i'd thoroughly recommend a go-to telescope! Celestron from my experience are great quality and easy to use

The major exception to the 'difficult instructions club' is the evolution. A joy to use.

[mikeDnight]

Hi Kevin

Before you throw your money at any kind of GOTO, why not try and find a local astro society and play with theirs?

I'm sure there'll be one near you and you can learn about the pros and cons of GOTO by people in the know. Its always easier to learn from an experienced observer than to try and muddle your way through on your own. You never know, after meeting up with various observers and talking things through, you may find that GOTO is not the way to go. You may even find an observer who lives near to you who is willing to be a kind of mentor.

I feel certain that once you've made a friend or two and learned your way around the sky a little better, you'll sail along splendidly whichever direction you choose.

Mike

[mikeskor]

With a good quality goto mount and a refractor telescope (no collimation necessary) plus Skeye on your mobile phone you will learn the sky and begin to enjoy astronomy.

[Gazabone]

You may find joining a local astronomy society or club a much cheaper and more rewarding alternative. You're right, all the coordinates, RA, Dec etc is confusing to start with. The benefit of a society is that someone will be able to show you how to do it all and bit by bit you'll understand the why. These days I stick up a goto scope with starsense attachment if I only have a short amount of time to observe otherwise I pop a bigger scope on a EQ6 syntrek (which means I have to find targets myself) and I use the setting circles to find my targets. Personally, I find it rather more satisfying to see my target in the eyepiece when I've "done it myself" rather computer aided.

Take it but by bit, the scope you have is good and, yes, a goto will have you looking at stuff more quickly but I thought I'd add to the equation. Whatever way you go, I hope you're soon looking at all the stuff you want to find.

[den12386]

I have a Skywatcher  Alt\Az Goto mount with the Skywatcher 130p reflector scope on it. I had the same experience as you with a equatorial mount, frustration of polar allignment and finding targets in the sky. I have to say I love my Goto system and its ability to find and track the targets you ask it to find. You can see many targets in an hour of viewing with the Goto system than with a manual mount.

If you do decide to get a Goto scope it can still be a little frustrating at first when setting it up and alligning it, which does get easier and quicker the more you do it. If you have a local astronomy society near you pop down when they are there and have a look at there scopes and they will be more than willing to show you how the alignment of the mount is done and give you some pointers on which scope may best suit what you want to look at.

[Astro Imp]

I have no doubt that GOTO mounts have their place but before you spend your hard earned take some time to view some of the threads on here detailing the frustrations experienced by newbies with their scopes.

Good luck and enjoy whatever you decide.

[LukeSkywatcher]

Kevin

Astronomy of any kind has learning curves involved. I think imaging has perhaps the steepest learning curve. What you are experiencing is normal teething problems that most if not all of us go through. I would hold off getting a computerised scope for now. Your best bet would be to work through your problems slowly and learn from them. One thing about computerised scopes (lets call them Go-To) is that to set them up, its not just a simple case of selecting a target from the menu and telling the scope to go find it. To align the scope you need to input certain data like your co-ordinates and then you need to point it at 1,2 or 3 bright stars in different areas of the sky and enter those as reference points for the GPS system to be able to triangulate your position on the planet. It can all be a bit tricky at first not to mention frustrating. Im not saying dont buy one, but learn to use what you have first. Learning a few basics is both valuable and rewarding in the long run.

Go-To is not all about instant satisfaction. There a bit more to it.

[hazegood]

I started off with the same scope, did not get on with the eq mount at al, so bought a skywatcher AZ goto mount,  for it (no need for a whole new scope, the tube will fit)

Played around with it for a while, and it worked for me,  however now I have a 150pds tube,  and am getting into imaging I have realised I need a eq mount, as I want the goto functions, am probably looking at a heq5

 

[Scooot]

My "Push To" is really very easy to set up. Once I've connected it, all I do is point the scope at the first star and press "Align". Point it at another star and press "Align". And that's it.