M101 observing with 4 inch refractor - no luck

[Maged]

Hi,

Beginner here..!

Yesterday I was learning deep sky chart from the great book "Nightwatch' by Terence Dickinson and I was so excited to know that M101 galaxy is within reach near the big dipper. I spent like 2 hours trying to locate it with my 4 inch 900mm focal length refractor with no luck. I started to doubt that it can not be seen by a 4 inch telescope?

I used a 32mm eyepiece.

The sky was clear.

I was behind a shield to avoid direct street light.

I just wanted to know why I couldn't see it? is it equipment or lack of experience?

Many thanks...

[PeterCPC]

It is very faint especially if you have any light pollution. I can't see it with my ED120 - only if I image it. Try averted vision - don't look directly at it but look near it.

Peter

[Mr Spock]

I have too much LP too. I can see it in the C9.25 but not in the 120mm refractor. In dark skies it can be seen with 80mm.

[Maged]

I have too much LP too. I can see it in the C9.25 but not in the 120mm refractor. In dark skies it can be seen with 80mm.

I am getting a 10" dobsonian soon, so will I be able to see m101 in light pollution with it?

[Mr Spock]

Yes, it should be a much easier target with 250mm.

[swamp thing]

I am getting a 10" dobsonian soon, so will I be able to see m101 in light pollution with it?

It's not about aperture it's about contrast. If it is invisible due to light pollution no aperture will help.

I can see M101 just as easily  in a pair of 15x70 bins as my 10" scope, as the surface brightness remains the same through both. M101 is also big enough for bins to pick out easily. Only features within the galaxy that require image scale are seen easier through the telescope. 

For Galaxies you must have dark skies. 

[scarp15]

M101 is suitably positioned high up currently which is a clear advantage. Depending on where you live, the sky at this time of year will need to become astronomically dark and void of any moonlight. A dark site and dark adapted eyes are a fundamental requirement. 

[John]

M101 is quite indistinct for me even with my 12" dob from my back yard on all but the best nights. At the SGL star party in March I could pick out M101 and M51 with my 50mm finder, which I thought quite impressive.

[Maged]

Thanks all for the replies.

Will a light pollution filter make a difference? 

[John]

Will a light pollution filter make a difference? 

Not in my experience. Dark skies are the key ingredient.

[jetstream]

I can see M101 with a 90mm APO from the darkest of skies, but this object is just not that easy. Interestingly enough it will take lots of mag from dark skies. A larger scope will bring out some DSO nicely- Leo's Triplet ( 2 of them), M81,M82 M57,M27,Veil etc and an OIII will help the appropriate objects in LP skies. Myself I focus on lunar/planetary in light skies and then drive to a dark site for the rest- very rewarding.

[Maged]

I'm so disappointed with the LP filter that I bought, it does not seem to provide any benefit what so ever.

And as you said a dark site is the answer

[scarp15]

It is perhaps about forging a balance, getting whatever you can from home, depending on the extent of your local light pollution and combine taking opportunities to get to somewhere with dark skies. A 4" refractor or even 10" dob as you mentioned, is a highly portable system.

[cotterless45]

Well put ! I've seen lots of posts where folk, even with aperture have been unable to see M101, M33 , M51 etc. these galaxies glow with structure and detail under dark sky.

From the edge of town the brighter galaxies are achievable as well as a mass of brighter deep sky targets and double stars.

No amount of filtering, aperture or hope will compare to the views from a dark site,

Nick.

[Stu]

Yep, I first managed to see M33, M101 and M51 using 15x50 binoculars at a dark site.

Best views I've ever had were at SGLX using the 16" under some reasonably dark skies. Plenty of structure visible. A large scope under a dark sky is the ultimate, but a 4" scope under a dark is still well worthwhile. It is the most I can normally manage.

I agree regarding making the most of the skies you have. At home I focus on planets, moon and brighter PNs and doubles and save the galaxies and faint nebulae for dark sites which I probably only go to a few times a year

[cuivenion]

I've found it with my 130p from central Morecambe, which has a fair amount of LP. It was only a very faint smudge though.

[Maged]

Yep, I first managed to see M33, M101 and M51 using 15x50 binoculars at a dark site. Best views I've ever had were at SGLX using the 16" under some reasonably dark skies. Plenty of structure visible. A large scope under a dark sky is the ultimate, but a 4" scope under a dark is still well worthwhile. It is the most I can normally manage. I agree regarding making the most of the skies you have. At home I focus on planets, moon and brighter PNs and doubles and save the galaxies and faint nebulae for dark sites which I probably only go to a few times a year

I'm going to a dark site soon, but wanted to confirm as per your reply, so can I see M101 with a pair of 10X50 binoculars? will it show any structure or will it be just a small point of light?

[Stu]

Yep, I first managed to see M33, M101 and M51 using 15x50 binoculars at a dark site. Best views I've ever had were at SGLX using the 16" under some reasonably dark skies. Plenty of structure visible. A large scope under a dark sky is the ultimate, but a 4" scope under a dark is still well worthwhile. It is the most I can normally manage. I agree regarding making the most of the skies you have. At home I focus on planets, moon and brighter PNs and doubles and save the galaxies and faint nebulae for dark sites which I probably only go to a few times a year

 

I'm going to a dark site soon, but wanted to confirm as per your reply, so can I see M101 with a pair of 10X50 binoculars? will it show any structure or will it be just a small point of light?

It won't show any structure but should appear as quite a large oval glow.

This shows scale in a 4.5 and 6.1 degree field for my 15x50 and 8x56 binos.

[Maged]

It won't show any structure but should appear as quite a large oval glow. This shows scale in a 4.5 and 6.1 degree field for my 15x50 and 8x56 binos.

What's the name of that software?

[ghostdance]

What's the name of that software?

That's Sky Safari, but which version only BigSu can tell us. He always does nice screengrabs

There are several versions, ranging from free through Plus to Pro. Good software.

[Stu]

It is indeed. I have the Pro version but they are all very good.

[spaceboy]

I must be blind as a bat as this is one galaxy that just doesn't stand out from the background for me under dark skies or in a reasonable size aperture.

[Stu]

I must be blind as a bat as this is one galaxy that just doesn't stand out from the background for me under dark skies or in a reasonable size aperture.

It looked great at SGLX Nick, did you not get it there?

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

It is a tricky one. I can get it in 10x50 bins with ease under really dark skies, but it can be very problematic if there is the slightest haze or LP (or both). I often use it as a test of the conditions. M51 is a good deal easier, and M81 and M82 very much easier still

[swamp thing]

From dark skies a phenomenal amount of detail can be seen in this object. As Michael says above it makes for a great indicator of sky conditions at ones observing site.