Dark Skies near Gloucester Somerset?

[Tommohawk]

Hi all.  Couldnt think of a suitable place to post - hope we're OK here.

We are considering a move away from East Sussex, possibly to Gloucester, Bristol, Bridgwater, Taunton, or Somerset area. Depends to some extent on work options - cuurently looks like options in Gloucester/Stroud/Tetbury, or Bristol/Bath/Weston Supermare, or Taunton, or Minehead.

My wife is looking at local facilities, transport, etc, but I'm more interested in how dark the skies are!

Where we are currently the sky is actually pretty good, and I would be reluctant to go anywhere where the seeing is worse - if its better, thats a bonus.

From the dark sky maps, it looks like West of Taunton on the way to Exmoor is very good - so Minehead and Taunton options look favourite. Can anyone advise about the other options? The other areas look very light, especially around Bristol.

Does anyone have first hand experience or advice please? Many thanks in advance,

Regards

Tom

[mountainmadman]

Hi Tom,

I know that if you are looking at the Gloucester area, check out the Cotswold Astronomical Society.  They have quite a good active membership.  The skies around the Cotswolds are pretty good.  In that area, you're not a million miles away from the Brecon Beacons.  I live in Herefordshire just next to Gloucestershire, and it doesn't take much to get under reasonable skies once you're away from the likes of Gloucester and the larger cities.  A large portion of the county is semi-rural so it's not too bad.

Further towards Bristol, you might need to travel a bit to get skies anything like you have now.  In terms of observing sites around that way though, I'm afraid I can't help.  Someone will be able to chip in with a bit more info I expect though.

Hope this helps,
Tony

[Tommohawk]

Hi Tony

Thats very helpful, thanks. We will be in Gloucester doing a recce this weekend, but I have the feeling that the weather wont be so good so maybe wont be able to tell very much.

Hereford looks nice, as does Ledbury, and is OK to commute to Gloucester - but that post wouls also mean travel to Stroud/Tetbury so too far i think.

I'm keen to ensure I get a dark sky site at home - the idea of hacking off cross country to set up at night, and no kettle to hand isn't appealing!!

Thanks!

[mountainmadman]

You're welcome,

the famous SGL star parties are held just between Hereford and Ross on Wye, so is a good sign of what the skies can be like around here.  West of Hereford it gets better and better.  A recce is obviously a great idea.  I think even if the weather is a bit rubbish, you'll get a feel for what it can be like just looking around.  Good luck in your search.  Fingers crossed that you find a good location.

Cheers

[laser_jock99]

You mention Minehead- that's not very far from the Exmoor International Dark Sky Reserve

http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/164534/Dark-Skies-Pocket-Guide.pdf

[JamesF]

I'm about ten miles or so west of Taunton, north of Wiveliscombe and within a stone's throw of the edge of Exmoor.  It's certainly dark here and on clear nights there's very little light pollution.  Few neighbours, few cars, no streetlights.  I've estimated NELM to be close to 6 on some nights (by counting stars in Ursa Minor).  It's one of the least populous areas of the entire country.  Whereas most places measure population density as people per square mile, here it's more like square miles per person.

On the potentially negative side it really is like the middle of nowhere and if you want something that can't be delivered you're going to have a twenty minute drive to somewhere the inhabitants amusingly term "civilisation".  There's not even a pub within walking distance.

I don't personally like Minehead as a place and it's possibly not the greatest choice from an "observing from home" point of view because the hills of Exmoor are immediately to your south which may affect how much you can see in that direction.  It's also a bit of a pain in the backside to get anywhere else from.  And that's before you consider Butlins.

If you want to stay closer to the M5, Wellington might be worth considering, or one of the villages nearby.  I'd personally chose it over Taunton.  To the south of Wellington there are the Blackdown Hills and not an awful lot else.

Nearer Bristol there are some pleasant little towns and villages to the south along the M5 around Clevedon/Nailsea/Weston.  Commuting into Bristol can be a pig though.

James

[ronin]

Much as though it is a hanging offence on a site like this but I would not consider a dark location as being in the priority list.

You will travel to and from work twice a day, you might go observing once a week, very likely less.

Make the to and from work the easy bit.

I have worked at places where literally every minute later I left meant 3 minutes later arrival, and after a given time in the morning each minute later meant 5 minutes later.

With work you cannot reasonably stay up observing much past midnight then do whatever job you have the next day.

The places indicated are on the West of the UK, you may not get a clear night at all in many of the weeks.

Lived just outside Swindon and it was one of the wettest cloudiest places I know of.

Gloucester and Cheltenham are not exactly a metropolis so getting away does not take much, the areas around look pretty good. If I recall the road down the Severn (West side) has a lot of parking areas.

The reality (terriable thing) is pick somewhere to live, preferably with decent access to other places including work - not just where you intend to work now, consider where you might work in 5 years or might have to work in 5 years, then decide on the astronomy.

[RikM]

There are plenty of nice places around Gloucester with reasonable skies. Tetbury, Dursley, Ulley to the south are okay. The Forest of Dean has some good spots as well. Between Cotswold AS and Cam and Dursley Telescope club we have have a couple of nice convenient darkish sites but nothing standout special.

[DaveS]

This is a good place to start

http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/index.html

Just zoom in to where you're thinking os going. No, it's not perfect but at least it's a start.

[Tommohawk]

Hey folks thanks for all the helpful responses.

You mention Minehead- that's not very far from the Exmoor International Dark Sky Reserve

http://www.exmoor-nationalpark.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/164534/Dark-Skies-Pocket-Guide.pdf

Yes, skies in Exmoor look lovely - but as has been mentioned bit remote!

I'm about ten miles or so west of Taunton, north of Wiveliscombe and within a stone's throw of the edge of Exmoor.  It's certainly dark here and on clear nights there's very little light pollution.  Few neighbours, few cars, no streetlights.  I've estimated NELM to be close to 6 on some nights (by counting stars in Ursa Minor).  It's one of the least populous areas of the entire country.  Whereas most places measure population density as people per square mile, here it's more like square miles per person.

On the potentially negative side it really is like the middle of nowhere and if you want something that can't be delivered you're going to have a twenty minute drive to somewhere the inhabitants amusingly term "civilisation".  There's not even a pub within walking distance.

I don't personally like Minehead as a place and it's possibly not the greatest choice from an "observing from home" point of view because the hills of Exmoor are immediately to your south which may affect how much you can see in that direction.  It's also a bit of a pain in the backside to get anywhere else from.  And that's before you consider Butlins.

If you want to stay closer to the M5, Wellington might be worth considering, or one of the villages nearby.  I'd personally chose it over Taunton.  To the south of Wellington there are the Blackdown Hills and not an awful lot else.

Nearer Bristol there are some pleasant little towns and villages to the south along the M5 around Clevedon/Nailsea/Weston.  Commuting into Bristol can be a pig though.

James

If I work in Minehead, I certainly wont live there, despite the dubious allure of Butlins. Funnily enough I had identified Wiveliscombe as a possibility and have been doing searches in that area. We are used to a 20 minute drive for anything significant - we're pretty much in East Sussex banjo country. We do at least have a local pub though, and that would be missed for sure.

Nailsea/clevedon look awful close to Bristol, and LP map looks a bit grim there, no?

Might seem an odd question, but does the M5 create significant light pollution?

Much as though it is a hanging offence on a site like this but I would not consider a dark location as being in the priority list.

You will travel to and from work twice a day, you might go observing once a week, very likely less.

Make the to and from work the easy bit.

I have worked at places where literally every minute later I left meant 3 minutes later arrival, and after a given time in the morning each minute later meant 5 minutes later.

With work you cannot reasonably stay up observing much past midnight then do whatever job you have the next day.

The places indicated are on the West of the UK, you may not get a clear night at all in many of the weeks.

Lived just outside Swindon and it was one of the wettest cloudiest places I know of.

Gloucester and Cheltenham are not exactly a metropolis so getting away does not take much, the areas around look pretty good. If I recall the road down the Severn (West side) has a lot of parking areas.

The reality (terriable thing) is pick somewhere to live, preferably with decent access to other places including work - not just where you intend to work now, consider where you might work in 5 years or might have to work in 5 years, then decide on the astronomy.

Wise words! It would be foolish to create daily grief for the sake of what is after all only a hobby. That said, I'm approaching retirement and hoping to work less - maybe 4 days per week reducing to 3. In fact this is the main reason for moving - the pension pot turns out to be more of a pension thimble and we need to downsize. Hopefully this will leave a bit more time for astrophotography, and I wouldnt want to move into semi-retirement mode without taking account of my pastimes.

I ceratinly dont want to depend on getting away from home for a dark site - ideally I'd build on observatory of some sort.

Re. the west of the UK - I recently read that Ramsgate is the sunniest place in the UK (good thing too... it isnt blessed with anything else) Is there really that much diffference from West to East? I know Damian Peach made some mention of this.

There are plenty of nice places around Gloucester with reasonable skies. Tetbury, Dursley, Ulley to the south are okay. The Forest of Dean has some good spots as well. Between Cotswold AS and Cam and Dursley Telescope club we have have a couple of nice convenient darkish sites but nothing standout special.

Thats reasssuring - am in Tetbury Sunday/monday night so will check it out, clouds permitting.

This is a good place to start

http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/index.html

Just zoom in to where you're thinking os going. No, it's not perfect but at least it's a start.

Thanks, I had found that site and was using the map for reference - how reliable do you think it is?

Also one obvious question which I've never really figured out - to what extent is light pollution a local issue, and to what extent is it longer range? What i mean is, street lights and neighbours multi-megawatt patio lighting clearly causes a problem, but would a city some miles away cause a problem to a greater or lesser degree?

Putting it another way, when looking at the LP map, can one simply look at the colour code of the local area, or should you take into account the pink areas some miles away?

Or..... am I overthinking this??

In practice its looking more and more likely that for various reasons we will rent for a while, so that will give time to sort the best location. Its just the job location that has to come first... sadly!

[JamesF]

Down this way the M5 is mostly unlit and there's not a generally huge amount of traffic, so light pollution isn't a major issue.  I'm not sure it's lit at all between Portishead-ish and Exeter, off the top of my head.  What light pollution we get here is generally from Taunton, Wiveliscombe and Bishop's Lydeard, though on nights when the seeing is good it's not an issue at all unless you're grubbing about on the horizon looking for Sagittarian Messiers.

I'm not sure what's going to happen to Wiveliscombe as a town.  It has very little in the way of "infrastructure" and an ever-increasing number of houses (they're just starting on another entire estate at the moment).  It does however have a passable market on a Saturday and a decent butcher, so living out of the town we get non-perishable food delivered and get fresh meat and veg. etc. locally.

There are plenty of small (and not-so-small) villages in the area that might appeal depending on how you like to make your compromises.  Most of Milverton is pleasant and there are more rural villages such as Langford Budville, Holywell Lake, Fitzhead, Halse, Oake or Bradford on Tone (the last two are getting a bit close to Taunton, but I believe there's another SGL member there or thereabouts).  I don't think Halse has a pub, but I believe all of the others do.

The appeal of being nearer Wellington if you need to travel is that it's fairly easy to get to the M5.  From our side you have to cross the whole of Taunton to get to the M5 junction there which can be a real slog on a bad day, whereas the Wellington junction is usually fairly easy to get to.

North of here on the way to Minehead there's Monksilver and Stogumber, but whilst they're closer to Minehead they're also near the bottom of north-facing slopes so views to the south might be a bit compromised again.  I guess that's going to be something of an issue with all of that area.

I'm not sure about the LP around Nailsea.  My parents have just moved into a house in Tickenham which is apparently surprisingly rural given its proximity to Nailsea.  The move was so recent that I've not even been there yet though, so I've no idea what it might be like for astronomy.

James

[JamesF]

I meant to add, that LP map is not entirely based on reality as I understand it.  I believe the modelling includes some assumptions that suggest any area with a given population density will produce at least some given level of light pollution.  The village nearest us (Brompton Ralph) is therefore shown as a little hotspot of light pollution when in fact I doubt there's anything worthy of the name.

James

[Tommohawk]

Thanks James, all useful stuff esp re the M5 light and junctions - looking at the map I can see what you mean. I imagine the M5 is a bit of a pig in holiday season, so probably best avoided completely. That said from where we are the M25 is pretty much obligatory for any longer journeys and thats at a standill from 4.30 a.m. some mornings.

Yes I wondered if the LP map is esentially just a population density type thing.

BTW seeing anything at all near the horizon would be utter luxury - I'll post some pics of my current viewing positions when I get a mo just to give everyone a laugh.

thanks again for the info

[JamesF]

I don't think the map is purely based on population density, but I believe there's an element of that to it which I think does lead to an overestimate in small rural villages.

James

[DaveS]

Yes, I was going to add that the Avex-Asso map is based on modelling so can be simplistic, there's no substitute for boots-on-the-ground. Howver, it is a eeasonable place to start. The other model based site, Need-Less has apparently vanished without trace quite recently.

Edit: There's also this one:

http://www.lightpollutionmap.info/#zoom=5&lat=6995082.37692&lon=-207786.72387&layers=B0TFFFTT

Though I have my doubts about some of the 2014 data.

Edit again: And this one, based on light seen from space:

http://www.blue-marble.de/nightlights/2012

Edit for a third time: This is the more severe Avex CCD map:

http://www.avex-asso.org/dossiers/pl/uk/uk-ccd.html

Sorry about all the edits, I'm having to navigate away from this page to pick up my favourits.

[Tommohawk]

Thanks Dave - I like the one taken from space - now if I could go to where that was taken from....!

[JamesF]

The second one is certainly more consistent with the impression I have of conditions here.

James

[RikM]

My youngest sister lives in Wivi. It darker round there than round here

[JamesF]

My youngest sister lives in Wivi. It darker round there than round here

Oddly, when we were considering moving to the area it turned out that my ex-boss had looked at a property on the edge of Wivey with a view to moving there (though now he's somewhat closer to you, in Twyning, just north of Tewkesbury) and it also turned out that the head of the department we worked in when he was my boss had also moved to Wivey when he retired.

It's clearly a happening place

James

[Tommohawk]

Hey, guys you are talking local speak... for local people...

Wivey = Wiveliscombe?!

[JamesF]

Wivey = Wiveliscombe?!

Yes, quite so  Even the locals get tired of saying "Wiveliscombe"

James

[RikM]

[mdstuart]

I live in Thornbury...mag 5.5 skies overhead but Bristol glow to the south...skies are relatively good looking to the east over the Cotswolds...

The town is often mentioned in the best towns list and has a coffee1 so what more can I say...

The skies are quite dark in Berkeley just north of here as you lose the worst of the Bristol glow.

Mark

[Tommohawk]

I live in Thornbury...mag 5.5 skies overhead but Bristol glow to the south...skies are relatively good looking to the east over the Cotswolds...

The town is often mentioned in the best towns list and has a coffee1 so what more can I say...

The skies are quite dark in Berkeley just north of here as you lose the worst of the Bristol glow.

Mark

Mark - thanks for that.

Errrr... has a coffee 1? Wassatt?

[JamesF]

Mark - thanks for that.

Errrr... has a coffee 1? Wassatt?

I think it means you really wanted a Waitrose

James