First Telescope help

[twofatslugs]

Hi there, I'm a complete newby in terms of Astronomy, and the telescopes involved. All I know is the difference between a refractor and a reflector, and that aperture is very important. 

I've been looking for a telescope to start off with, and have done a few days of searching around and am now looking on forums for advice. The telescope I have in mind is a Skywatcher Skyliner 200p Dob, it looks pretty bulky but that doesn't bother me, as a little bit of extra information I'm not really interested in taking images. 

I'm just wondering if this a decent starting telescope, also, after doing some reading some people have said that different eyepieces are needed for this scope for planetary viewing. As my knowledge is rather limited, I'm looking for a bit of advice as to eyepieces also. Will definitely also take a good look at other recommendations for telescopes, my budget is around £350.

Thanks for any help in advance, really looking forward to taking the plunge into star gazing.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

The 200mm dob is a brilliant choice, it looks bulky, but when I first saw one physically for real, I was quite surprised at how small it looked (maybe just me). You will not go wrong with choosing this one and im sure many others will back me up on this.

You will get a 25 & 10mm eyepiece with the scope, these are okay EPs, I still have mine in my case. Only when you are actually out using the telescope and have used it a fair while, start looking at new EPs, theres no need to rush into things as you wont really know any different. I didn't buy any new ones until maybe 4-6months after I got my scope.

Also a very warm welcome to SGL.

Matt.

[Coastliner]

First off, welcome to SGL, we're a friendly bunch and are very willing to help each other.

SW Skyliner 200p will get the thumbs-up from a lot of folk, I have one for eg and am very pleased with it. I think it comes with a 25mm eyepiece, you will get advice from others better qualified than me re more eyepieces. Go here for starters http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/43171-eyepieces-the-very-least-you-need/  and, get the book "Turn left at Orion".   To save you a bit of time in asking the next question which will undoubtably be regarding collimation, go here - http://www.astro-baby.com/collimation/astro%20babys%20collimation%20guide.htm.

That should keep you going for a while!

Neil.

[GuLinux]

My girlfriend has a GSO 200mm dobsonian, really similar to the SkyLiner 200p (you might search for it, it might be a bit cheaper).

It's an amazing telescope, it can be carried even on a small car, and it's ready for observing in just a few minutes.

I think a 200mm dobsonian it's the perfect way to start up. Of course, if you have specific issues (portability, or diameter, planetary vs deep sky) there might be better alternatives, but for a generic first usage telescope, I think your choice is pretty good, and you will use it for several years before thinking about buying a bigger one

[twofatslugs]

Thanks for the reply, I'll have a good read of the posts above. With regards to collimation, what is it and what does it do? And with regards to eyepieces, I was looking at buying a x2 Barlow. The scope comes with a 10mm and 25mm, what would buying something like a 6mm give?

[GuLinux]

A barlow might be a good idea, but it has to be a pretty good one, otherwise you'll only get frustrated.

I would save money for a few more eyepieces, a 6mm is good, maybe even a 5mm ED, with a wider view angle, a low power one (32/38mm, wide angle, useul for finding objects, and viewing large ones), and even more importantly a good star chart (I have Uranometria 2000, it's very useful)

[twofatslugs]

The 200mm dob is a brilliant choice, it looks bulky, but when I first saw one physically for real, I was quite surprised at how small it looked (maybe just me). You will not go wrong with choosing this one and im sure many others will back me up on this.

You will get a 25 & 10mm eyepiece with the scope, these are okay EPs, I still have mine in my case. Only when you are actually out using the telescope and have used it a fair while, start looking at new EPs, theres no need to rush into things as you wont really know any different. I didn't buy any new ones until maybe 4-6months after I got my scope.

Also a very warm welcome to SGL.

Matt.

Thanks for the response, I'll take your advice and hold off buying new EPs for a few months. What kind of views could I expect in terms of seeing planets, and deep space objects such as M42? I have an interest in viewing both. 

[twofatslugs]

A barlow might be a good idea, but it has to be a pretty good one, otherwise you'll only get frustrated.

I would save money for a few more eyepieces, a 6mm is good, maybe even a 5mm ED, with a wider view angle, a low power one (32/38mm, wide angle, useul for finding objects, and viewing large ones), and even more importantly a good star chart (I have Uranometria 2000, it's very useful)

Thanks for the response. Will save my money and view with the supplied eye pieces. What kind of views would a 10mm, and 25mm provide with this Telescope?

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Here is a very good link for showing FOV. Put in your scope (or what you think you might buy) and choose an EP, just focus on the mm lengths rather than the brand etc.

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm

Just make sure that you choose visual view rather than photography on the lower right hand side, then click on the 'objects' box and choose some messiers and planets to get an idea.

Matt.

EDIT - Accidently posted before id finished typing.

[twofatslugs]

Here is a very good link for showing FOV. Put in your scope (or what you think you might buy) and choose an EP, just focus on the mm lengths rather than the brand etc.

http://www.12dstring.me.uk/fov.htm

Just make sure that you choose visual view rather than photography on the lower right hand side, then click on the 'objects' box and choose some messiers and planets to get an idea.

Matt.

EDIT - Accidently posted before id finished typing.

Brilliant thanks for the help. In terms of Collimation, how difficult is it? This is the only bit I'm apprehensive about, don't want to break anything when it does arrive/

[laudropb]

Hi. Collimation can seem a bit daunting at first, but once you have done it once it is a breeze. Also my Skyliner holds collimation very well and usually only needs a small tweak, even after a journey in the car.

[twofatslugs]

Hi. Collimation can seem a bit daunting at first, but once you have done it once it is a breeze. Also my Skyliner holds collimation very well and usually only needs a small tweak, even after a journey in the car.

Yeah, the guides I'm reading do make it seem daunting. I'll see if I can buy collimation cap to aid the process. From my understanding using this website that was linked earlier, the smaller mm eye pieces seem to give far better views of planets, whereas the larger 10mm, 25mm give small views of planets, and greater views of things like M42.

Why is this the case? And, in terms of eye piece compatibility, are they universal? Could I simply buy a 6mm eyepiece for example, and use it right out of the box?

[ronin]

Just to add confusion I am not sure that not considering better eyepieces is a good idea.

Usually the 25mm is OK but the 10mm is close to useless.

Ultimately you want to see something and spending time with poor eyepieces does not mean you get a good view until you get better eyepieces.

Using the supplied items is a good idea if they were reasonable, but very often they are not.

So yes use them, try them out but be prepared to look at even one better eyepiece, say a £25-30 plossl. Not greatly extravagant and would give an indication.

Also for eyepiece if you ask say if you wear glasses.

Which bit of the UK, may be a club near to you that could be suggested.

[twofatslugs]

Just to add confusion I am not sure that not considering better eyepieces is a good idea.

Usually the 25mm is OK but the 10mm is close to useless.

Ultimately you want to see something and spending time with poor eyepieces does not mean you get a good view until you get better eyepieces.

Using the supplied items is a good idea if they were reasonable, but very often they are not.

So yes use them, try them out but be prepared to look at even one better eyepiece, say a £25-30 plossl. Not greatly extravagant and would give an indication.

Also for eyepiece if you ask say if you wear glasses.

Which bit of the UK, may be a club near to you that could be suggested.

If I were to buy another eyepiece, it would just be something for a better view of planets such as Jupiter and Saturn. Using this very handy website linked earlier, they seem very small in a 25mm and 10mm, but in the 6 they look really nice. From the vast number of user reviews it seems that the eyepieces are fine, but then again I'm a total noob. Just wondering what would be a good idea to go for in terms of a planet viewing eyepiece, and if it's even compatible with this kind of telescope.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

This could be the realisation that you're not going to see what you think your going to see kind of thing. It will seem small in nearly every eyepiece, because after all, your stood in your garden and its 365,000,000 miles away.

I would in parts agree with Ronin, there is no harm in buying a better, relatively cheap EP, I may of jumped the gun when I said no buy any, but I more meant don't rush out buying expensive EPs, for example, my Celestron Excels were £70 each, and I bought 4. Over time you'll come to learn what you like about an EP and what you don't, and if you go to meet ups, you will find other EPs that you like. That is how I found the excels.

The more magnification you put on (the lower the mm of EP), the blurrier the image is going to get, because your magnifying not only the object, but also any bad seeing from the atmosphere. Also the more 'zoomed in' you are, the less light your going to get down your scope. So what we have is  trade off, magnification for a better image quality. Most people have a range of EPs - check my signature for my range - to suit any conditions, say a 4mm EP is going to be great for planets, but you'll probably only use it once or twice a year. FYI, out of my range of EPs, the 12mm is the most used, even on planets. A lot of people use a 6mm as a planetary EP so you could be onto something there.

Matt.

[twofatslugs]

This could be the realisation that you're not going to see what you think your going to see kind of thing. It will seem small in nearly every eyepiece, because after all, your stood in your garden and its 365,000,000 miles away.

I would in parts agree with Ronin, there is no harm in buying a better, relatively cheap EP, I may of jumped the gun when I said no buy any, but I more meant don't rush out buying expensive EPs, for example, my Celestron Excels were £70 each, and I bought 4. Over time you'll come to learn what you like about an EP and what you don't, and if you go to meet ups, you will find other EPs that you like. That is how I found the excels.

The more magnification you put on (the lower the mm of EP), the blurrier the image is going to get, because your magnifying not only the object, but also any bad seeing from the atmosphere. Also the more 'zoomed in' you are, the less light your going to get down your scope. So what we have is  trade off, magnification for a better image quality. Most people have a range of EPs - check my signature for my range - to suit any conditions, say a 4mm EP is going to be great for planets, but you'll probably only use it once or twice a year. FYI, out of my range of EPs, the 12mm is the most used, even on planets. A lot of people use a 6mm as a planetary EP so you could be onto something there.

Matt.

Aah okay, I understand now. I've added to my basket a William Optics SPL Eyepiece, apparently this works well with the 200p Dob. I'll see how it goes, the only part I'm worried about is Collimating. Do you have to purchase a laser collimator? Or is it possible to align both mirrors with a collimating cap?

[ronin]

Eyepieces and planets are a bit of a nightmare.

Simply you can find that a 1mm difference in eyepiece focal length makes a significant difference.

If the 10mm is small , then I suppose the next down would be say the BST 8mm, then there is the X-Cel 7mm, then the William Optics 6mm then you have both BST and X-Cel in 5mm.

You will find nights when the 8mm works but the 7mm is not do good, or the 8mm and 7mm work but the 6mm is not so good, then comes 8mm, 7mm and 6mm good but 5mm not good and if the gods smile the whole lot give good results. Get the idea? :grin:

For planetary viewing you will end up with quite a number of eyepieces.

Not being difficult ignore images, and image produced and printed is not what you necessarily see and the scale is easily lost.

The scope will take any 1.25" eyepiece so they are all compatible.

As I recall the WO 6mm Planetary gets good reports, they are £79.

Never used one, I have the WO SWANS, but not the planetarys, but as said good reports.

Your scope is (I believe) 1200mm focal length so the 25mm will give 48x which is a bit small and the image may be too bright to get the detail out.

The 10mm should give 120x which is a lot better, if the image quality is present - so try it and make up your mind. You should get a brightish Jupiter and 2 bands possibly a hint of the other 2 bands and all the moons. Detail may be a little lost owing to the way a newtonian works.

A 6mm will be 200x and that may not presently give a great result, bigger image yes, but 200x is where things tend to drop off usually owning to the atmosphere and for the last few nights the atmosphere has been awful. Almost nothing has worked.

Would guess that for the last week 200x would have been unusable (or pointless to try) whereas 150x on an 8mm would be OK.

Next week 200x may be usable.

I do agree with Matt and will say try the ones that you get first. That at least costs nothing.

If they perform well enough stick with them until you have the need to go for better.

Just as said you bought a scope to see the sky and if the supplied items reduce that ability too much then you  have to make that decision earlier then intended.

Welcome to the world of eyepieces.

I only have about 40 to 50 of them, and actually do not think I have a 6mm. :grin:

Maybe I need one?

[twofatslugs]

Eyepieces and planets are a bit of a nightmare.

Simply you can find that a 1mm difference in eyepiece focal length makes a significant difference.

If the 10mm is small , then I suppose the next down would be say the BST 8mm, then there is the X-Cel 7mm, then the William Optics 6mm then you have both BST and X-Cel in 5mm.

You will find nights when the 8mm works but the 7mm is not do good, or the 8mm and 7mm work but the 6mm is not so good, then comes 8mm, 7mm and 6mm good but 5mm not good and if the gods smile the whole lot give good results. Get the idea? :grin:

For planetary viewing you will end up with quite a number of eyepieces.

Not being difficult ignore images, and image produced and printed is not what you necessarily see and the scale is easily lost.

The scope will take any 1.25" eyepiece so they are all compatible.

As I recall the WO 6mm Planetary gets good reports, they are £79.

Never used one, I have the WO SWANS, but not the planetarys, but as said good reports.

Your scope is (I believe) 1200mm focal length so the 25mm will give 48x which is a bit small and the image may be too bright to get the detail out.

The 10mm should give 120x which is a lot better, if the image quality is present - so try it and make up your mind. You should get a brightish Jupiter and 2 bands possibly a hint of the other 2 bands and all the moons. Detail may be a little lost owing to the way a newtonian works.

A 6mm will be 200x and that may not presently give a great result, bigger image yes, but 200x is where things tend to drop off usually owning to the atmosphere and for the last few nights the atmosphere has been awful. Almost nothing has worked.

Would guess that for the last week 200x would have been unusable (or pointless to try) whereas 150x on an 8mm would be OK.

Next week 200x may be usable.

I do agree with Matt and will say try the ones that you get first. That at least costs nothing.

If they perform well enough stick with them until you have the need to go for better.

Just as said you bought a scope to see the sky and if the supplied items reduce that ability too much then you  have to make that decision earlier then intended.

Welcome to the world of eyepieces.

I only have about 40 to 50 of them, and actually do not think I have a 6mm. :grin:

Maybe I need one?

I think I'll purchase just the one 6mm eyepiece, I think it covers a decent base for a total noob. Just reading a ton of information on collimating now. Hopefully after the first few times I do it, it'll become second nature.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

In all honestly, I think ive only ever collimated my scope 2 or 3 times. I find it simple enough, a Cheshire collimators a good tool and is what I use. Can barely remember how you do it now lol.

Matt.

[Sirius Starwatcher]

The Wiliams Optics 6 mm is a cracking eye piece for use with the 200Dob I love mine and it's just great with the planets. You wil not be disappointed. if you,could find someone close by you with a BST eye piece I strongly recommend you have a look with it. It again matches very nicely with the 200 Dob and is not too,expensive at £49 a go.

[twofatslugs]

In all honestly, I think ive only ever collimated my scope 2 or 3 times. I find it simple enough, a Cheshire collimators a good tool and is what I use. Can barely remember how you do it now lol.

Matt.

is it possible without the cheshire and laser?

[Matt Scunthorpe]

Ive no idea because ive never done it nor tried, I have always used a Cheshire.

Im sure they're will be plenty of threads somewhere on this forum covering it though.

Matt.

[happy-kat]

The least you need is a collimating cap and you can even make your own.

I personally will never buy a laser collimator as they can be out before you even use it so makes things worse if you don't spot it.

[twofatslugs]

The least you need is a collimating cap and you can even make your own.

I personally will never buy a laser collimator as they can be out before you even use it so makes things worse if you don't spot it.

Oh, brilliant. I've got a collimating cap in my basket on the website I'm buying from, think it's firstlightoptics. Looking forward to trying out my first proper telescope, I'll try and find some guides in terms of collimating with just a cap.

[Matt Scunthorpe]

So you all decided what you're going for now?

Matt.