Leo triplet - invisible in light polluted skies?

[adarshajoisa]

Tonight the sky was extremely transparent, and with good seeing! (doesn't happen very often) I was able to spot GRS and Europa's shadow as it transited fairly easily within seconds. After that, I tried looking for Leo triplet, but was unable to spot them. I'm fairly certain I was in the exact location, but there was nothing even at 8mm (81x). How hard is it to spot? Do you really need very dark skies for Leo triplet? The sky was extremely clear tonight, with tons of stars visible. Polaris, which is about 12 degrees above the horizon from my location is usually invisible, but it was very bright tonight, along with several stars just above the horizon. Tonight is one of those rare nights when the sky is crystal clear! What are your thoughts? What can I hope to see under such skies? Getting a dark sky site from my location means travelling at least 300 kms away, so it rarely works out for me. Any suggestions on easier galactic targets at this time of the year would be most welcome!

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Galaxies have low surface brightness, so it helps to keep magnification down. An exit pupil of about 2-3 mm works best for me, so that would mean 10-15mm EPs. I can spot at least M65 and M66 on many nights from my suburban garden, although the third member is only visible on good nights.

[YKSE]

As Michael said, galaxies are difficult in light-polluted sky. I just barely made out M65 and M66 in my backyard when I had 130p with 18mm eyepiece.

Open clusters and globulas are easier, you can look for M42M35/36/37/38 early in the nights, then M44/67/3/53, and late at night M5/13/92/57.

[Mr Spock]

From my light polluted skies I can see them with the C9.25 at x107. I imagine a 130 would pick them up in dark skies.

[dick_dangerous]

I can pick them up in London, just. But only M65 and M66. Saw them last night under the glorious dark skies of The Lizard (in gale force winds) and they were far more impressive.

[SteveB72]

I managed to see all three in the same FOV last Saturday night from my back garden in Woking with my Skyliner 400P.

[lunator]

i always found it tough from my light polluted skies in Richmond.

There were visible sometimes but generally it needed to be very cold and clear

I was using the 8" Newt at this time.

Cheers

Ian

[laudropb]

Have seen them for near Glasgow, but only when seeing is very good

[big_scot_nanny]

I find the 2 messiers relatively easy when you know where to look, but it's proving a mite tricky to find all three of the blighters.

Not very dark skies, plenty of glare and even with the moon last night the 2 Ms were there, but not a peep of no. 3. This was with a 12", so I think with your aperture and l imagine very light polluted skies, it will be tricky.

However, just to make sure you're in the right spot: between the stars Chort and iLeo, almost exactly half way between and slightly to the left of an imaginary line between is where those galaxies sit. In a low power EP, look for a semi circular asterism of stars, the galaxies are just to the left of this open C.

For easier galaxies, perhaps aim higher up - look at what is directly overhead. M51 or M101?

Hope that helps.

Kev

[Stu]

I just about got the two messiers in the 10" last night from Esher Rugby club. Plenty of light pollution around both localised and general sky glow. No chance before the floodlights went off obviously [emoji6]

[-Aldebaran-]

A longer focal length eyepiece, good aperture and dark skies seem to be good ingredients for the trio, I had a relatively dark site with a crescent moon setting in horizon, with my 200mm using a 24mm fl eyepiece and i could only make out the brighter two galaxies, higher magnification dims surface brightness to an extent.

[todd8137]

Took me ages to find the third out of this group ,

Pat

[SpaceWalker]

Interesting, how many stars in Ursa Minor did you see on that night? I usually see Polaris and a couple more, the brightest ones. It means typical average-below average observing conditions. If I see all seven it means excellent night and it happens just few times a year.

As many other posters I can see in my red zone in my 8" Dob just two, M65 and M66. My records saying that I use exit pupil of 2-2.4mm.  I'm not sure if you can spot them with 130mm aperture under LP at all, but the 8mm focal length gives you ~1.6mm eye pupil that is too small, you need to try gathering more light using longer focal lengths, so zoom out!  .  Michael and others are absolutely right suggesting you the 10-15mm eyepieces.

In addition to what has been suggested.

I'm not sure how long have you been in this hobby. Even if you can't escape from LP area you need to take some measures to block stray light and make your observing spot as dark as possible. Build some simple light blocking panels. Wear hood or eye patch.

For galaxies, even relatively bright like Leo Triplet you need at least partial eye dark adaptation. You need to use averted vision, so if you don't have enough experience you should practice and with more experience you'll see more DSOs, maybe Leo Triplet too. Due to low contrast galaxies are among the toughest astronomical objects for observing especially from LP area and through small apertures so it requires certain experience how to use  averted vision, how to move your OTA back and force trying to spot low contrast galaxy, how to reach dark adaptation etc.

BTW, have you tried M81/82 pair in Ursa Major?  I don't know about your location, but in the Northern Hemispere Ursa Major raises high at this time, a good chance to observe DSOs there. I'm sure you can find these two spectacular bright galaxies with your scope.

Good luck!

[adarshajoisa]

Interesting, how many stars in Ursa Minor did you see on that night? I usually see Polaris and a couple more, the brightest ones. It means typical average-below average observing conditions. If I see all seven it means excellent night and it happens just few times a year.

 

As many other posters I can see in my red zone in my 8" Dob just two, M65 and M66. My records saying that I use exit pupil of 2-2.4mm.  I'm not sure if you can spot them with 130mm aperture under LP at all, but the 8mm focal length gives you ~1.6mm eye pupil that is too small, you need to try gathering more light using longer focal lengths, so zoom out!  .  Michael and others are absolutely right suggesting you the 10-15mm eyepieces.

 

In addition to what has been suggested.

I'm not sure how long have you been in this hobby. Even if you can't escape from LP area you need to take some measures to block stray light and make your observing spot as dark as possible. Build some simple light blocking panels. Wear hood or eye patch.

 

For galaxies, even relatively bright like Leo Triplet you need at least partial eye dark adaptation. You need to use averted vision, so if you don't have enough experience you should practice and with more experience you'll see more DSOs, maybe Leo Triplet too. Due to low contrast galaxies are among the toughest astronomical objects for observing especially from LP area and through small apertures so it requires certain experience how to use  averted vision, how to move your OTA back and force trying to spot low contrast galaxy, how to reach dark adaptation etc.

 

BTW, have you tried M81/82 pair in Ursa Major?  I don't know about your location, but in the Northern Hemispere Ursa Major raises high at this time, a good chance to observe DSOs there. I'm sure you can find these two spectacular bright galaxies with your scope.

 

Good luck!

I could see 2 of the brighter stars other than polaris. But I think that's fairly good skies since polaris is about 12° above the horizon here. The observing site is fairly dark since it's surrounded by trees, and there's no bright light shining directly in the area, but the sky is a red zone. Also, I tried with larger exit pupils, but the sky becomes too bright to notice anything else. That's why I went with the 8mm EP. I'm also familiar with using averted vision, and I've found a few deep sky objects with averted vision. I guess my failure to locate the objects are a combination of non-dark adapted eyes, the high sky brightness, and the low aperture. Though I'm not sure if higher apertures would help with such bright skies. It's been totally cloudy the past few weeks. Next time, I'll try dark adapting my eyes better and using a larger exit pupil. I think the best thing to do would be to pack up the scope and head for darker skies. [emoji58]

Sent from my HM NOTE 1W using Tapatalk

[adarshajoisa]

I haven't been able to observe anything for the past couple of weeks. Pretty much every night is cloudy with regular thunder storms [emoji21] last week we had a crazy storm that flattened nearly every tree in the area. Took the electricity company 2 whole days to clear all the trees and erect electric poles to get the power back on!! We were pretty much in the stone age for 2 days with only candles and mosquitoes for company. [emoji14]. Hopefully the weather clears soon so I can get back to observing.

Sent from my HM NOTE 1W using Tapatalk

[CHAMACO]

I live in a place with semi-rural skies, at 1100 m of altitude and around 20.8-21.1 SQM. With a 114/900 reflector and 25mm rubbish eyepiece which came with the scope (36x at 3.16 exit pupil) I get M65 and M66, but no way to get NGC3628.

For galaxies, the most important part of the scope is the sky.