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DSO's for London skies?


Jaydippy

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Hello!

I've recently found some more time for observing and would love some recommendations for DSO's through my 8" dob. The light pollution is pretty bad around here, but not impossible to deal with...on better days you can just about see the Little Dumbell nebula (or maybe this is just wishful thinking and an overactive imagination) to give you an idea of what can be seen.

Cheers,

Jay

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Sounds like you're off to a good start! I've never even tried for the Little Dumbbell in my lil 6"....I take it you've tried the usual suspects? M57, North American, (big) Dumbbell, M36/7/8 et al?

What part of London are you in? If you're at all suburban, I'd think your choices are a whole lot more than I can offer.  

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North America.... Eek, not without special help! Globs and open clusters, bright planetaries, possibly bright galaxies.... Wait for "mr dangerous" to come and comment, but he's done most of the measures from SW London.

Cheers

PeterW

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A good start would be M81/82. As a mainly urban observer myself I tend to hunt for targets at least 40 degrees above the horizon to avoid sky glow. M65/66 may be too low. Also try M94. If you can see any or all of these your skies are not so bad. 

It is useful  referring to a resource that gives dso magnitudes. Keep a note of what you have seen as some nights the sky may be more transparent & show you dimmer stuff. After a while you will realise what magnitude range you can try for.

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Globs and brighter planetary nebulae such as M27, 57. Forget the large diffuse objects such as the Veil, NA etc

The Auriga cluster are nice, M3 is looking good currently. M81/82 as mentioned.

Double cluster is great, and there are plenty of smaller OC's in Cass, Ngc457 for example.

It is all about surface brightness really Ie magnitude over area. Too low and the object is just not visible against the skyglow

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North America.... Eek, not without special help! 

Cheers

PeterW

True...I've made it out only once or twice max. And then only a suggestion of the 'gulf' shape, but hey, y'dunno til you try!

Plus, 8" vs 6" - thought aperture may have helped the OP here :)

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Thanks for all the suggestions, certainly enough to keep me busy for the next few years with the conditions at the moment. 

Ghostdance: Recently moved to Southgate, fairly suburban and (as luck would have it) with a fairly large field behind the garden  :grin:

I like the idea of keeping a log of what's visible Paul. Trouble with magnitudes is that, as BigSumorian says, most diffuse objects are washed out by the skyglow and any cloud takes care of the rest. (Took me a good few nights of searching to find M31...although I had no idea what to except at the time).

I've been chasing open clusters recently, ticked off a few obvious ones now. Not so keen globs having gone on a wild goose chase after M13 early on with the hobby, but beggars can't be choosers etc. 

Also, any recommendations for dark sites near north London?

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Looking at my records observing mainly from my back garden with my 8" under typically mag 4 skies I observed over 100 objects including 20 odd galaxies & several globular clusters & p/n over 16 months before I got a bigger scope. Loads more seen from a proper dark sky with the 8" too. Though surface brightness may be a limitation with brighter skies I still have a go as occasionally I have seen thing never seen again because it was a good transparent sky.

Happy hunting.

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I found this a diverse and interesting observing list, most of them we possible with my 5" Mak from my back garden in Woking. Aperture does help, the 16" dob is amazing, I wonder what you can see with a 24" mirror.

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I found this a diverse and interesting observing list, most of them we possible with my 5" Mak from my back garden in Woking. Aperture does help, the 16" dob is amazing, I wonder what you can see with a 24" mirror.

The increase from 16" to 24" will be exactly as if you upgrade from a 4" to 6", or from 8" to 12" mathematically, and probably less gain in practical due to big apertures are mre heavily influenced by the seeing.

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A great list Steve, now the only challenge is to actually find any of them!

What I'd give for 16" of aperture...probably around  £2000 I suppose. A bit like money in that respect...you can never have enough (Mr. Slim excluded). That being said, I'd like to take the 8" down to a dark site first and see what it can show me before upgrading. 

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An 8" under a dark sky will show you plenty!! [emoji2]

Until recently at SGLX, my best views of the Veil and NAN had been at dark sites in Dorset with a 4" widefield refractor and OIII filter. Actually I prefer the NAN through the wider view as you can see the whole object framed nicely.

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 I'd like to take the 8" down to a dark site first and see what it can show me before upgrading. 

I think this is much sensible approach.

If you can find a reasonably dark site of 6.0, you'll have two magnitudes advantage over the 4.0 at home, the light grasp difference between 20" and 8" are just about 2 magnitudes, put it in another way, an 8" in 6.0 dark site works just as good as a 20" in your 4.0 backyard!

Conclusion? If you REALLY need to buy a big scope, buy the biggest one you can carry to a dark site. :smiley:

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An 8" under a dark sky will show you plenty!! [emoji2]

I agree Stu. When I had my 8" skywatcher I was amazed how much more I could see from a reasonably dark sky. At our local club which can be NELM mag 5.5 or better I could easily see M110 near the Andromeda galaxy but from home I rarely saw it. Also M33 impossible from home but visible at the dark sky site. Also M13 resolving stars nearly to the core. 

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I agree Stu. When I had my 8" skywatcher I was amazed how much more I could see from a reasonably dark sky. At our local club which can be NELM mag 5.5 or better I could easily see M110 near the Andromeda galaxy but from home I rarely saw it. Also M33 impossible from home but visible at the dark sky site. Also M13 resolving stars nearly to the core.

The really scary thing is when you get under a mag 7 sky! I took a 66mm refractor on safari in Tanzania and it performed like an 8" under my London skies, better in fact! You don't get the resolution on small objects of course, but scanning the Milky Way in Sagitarius was stunning!

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Open custers, globs and planetaries. Bright eases can be those if all the light was concentrated into a star... So larger objects can have apparently bright magnitudes, but being spread out they are very hard to find. There are plenty of good urban observing lists to plunder!

If anyone is getting a BIG scope then get a fast one and let me have a play!

Cheers

Peter

PS stay away from streetlights and get a good finding kit!

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North America.... Eek, not without special help! Globs and open clusters, bright planetaries, possibly bright galaxies.... Wait for "mr dangerous" to come and comment, but he's done most of the measures from SW London.

Cheers

PeterW

Here I am! Late as usual... Was going to go and look at the moon but then realised I'm too knackered - curses work! They did let me run a stargazing event last week though, and it was pretty successful, so I mustn't grumble.

DSOs for London? I think most bases have been covered in the previous replies - low surface brightness objects are right out. NA, M33, M101, M74; all have thwarted me in London, although under dark skies I've bagged the first three with no problems, even with my 80mm refractor.

Planetary Nebulae are always worth a pop - Dumbbell, Little Dumbbell (We're having the same hallucination if you're imagining it), Ring, Eskimo, Cat's Eye; all and more are visible from the park. A nebula filter really helps out with these. On a good night I can get the Crab Nabula, but any haze renders it invisible, and I did manage glimpses of the Veil last year, but that's one to leave for a dark sky where it can blow your mind!

Open Clusters are also easy - all the Messier clusters are doable from London, although M6 & M7 are a real pain because they're so close to the horizon at the wrong time of year. I should imagine that those of us in South London have the advantage here. Pretty much all of the globulars are easy pickings too; only M68 and M55 have thwarted me in Bushy Park, although I've picked them up in other locations. M13, M92, M3, M5, M53 etc. are all good choices in the next month.

Emission nebulae are harder because they're so diffuse, but on a really good night they will stand out. Of the Messiers only M16's nebulosity eludes me in the park. M42 is bright enough to be verging on naked eye out of the street-light glare, and the Sagittarius nebulae are all spectacular. Even little M78 will show from the park; being an emission nebula, it's the only one that doesn't benefit from a UHC filter.

Galaxies present the greatest challenge. Having said that you can see more than you might expect - I spent a happy birthday last year trawling through the Virgo galaxies from Bushy Park. You need to give yourself plenty of time at the eyepiece to get dark adapted. M94 in Canes Venatici is a really nice, really easy one that's coming up now. The more famous ones are visible - M31 (and M32 and sometimes M110), M81 & M82. Stuff like M33 and M101, which can be tricky even under a pristine sky, won't show against the background glare though.

Hope that's some help to you!

DD

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Plenty of sites East of Guildford or docking if you want a bit darker... Otherwise you need a tent and then get along to a starparty where there are far fewer lights and bigger scopes....

Cheers

PeterW

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Sometimes it seems an uphill struggle to see dsos from urban locations. However what I have found is that the brighter skies have forced me to be more certain of my star hopping accuracy. Improved my observing technique along with reliance on averted vision to tease out the more illusive. But most of all when I do get to a dark sky location I truly appreciate what a thrill it is to see some of these spectacular objects in a totally different way. Only last night I was doing exactly that. Over 40 objects observed with the Moon up under dark skies. That was over three hours. At home I may see 10 in the same time span & not see 20 tried for. But I still regularly observe at home & enjoy at least trying.

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I've only recently moved on from the "point and hope" method. Star hopping is certainly working better, managed to finally catch a glimpse of M94, M3 and Cat's Eye last night (3 in one night, a personal best  :tongue: ). A dark sky might show you more Paul, but what about the thrill of "is that a smudge or a galaxy?"

Cheers for the list DD, should get a go at ticking a few off if this weather holds  :clouds1: . What would you recommend filter-wise? I've tried a SW LP filter, but it didn't seem to do much for my skies. Probably even less now that the local school has decided to leave their LED floodlights on 24/7... <_<.

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I've only recently moved on from the "point and hope" method. Star hopping is certainly working better, managed to finally catch a glimpse of M94, M3 and Cat's Eye last night (3 in one night, a personal best  :tongue: ). A dark sky might show you more Paul, but what about the thrill of "is that a smudge or a galaxy?"

Cheers for the list DD, should get a go at ticking a few off if this weather holds  :clouds1: . What would you recommend filter-wise? I've tried a SW LP filter, but it didn't seem to do much for my skies. Probably even less now that the local school has decided to leave their LED floodlights on 24/7... <_<.

Is It a smudge from my garden happens a lot. That is actually the most satisfying reward of all. I often say to myself how amazing it is that I can see dozens of galaxies from my urban location. It is a bit easier with the 12" now. That I use at home mostly & despite what some say it has revealed many more faint fuzzies.

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Forgot to say. I don't use lp filters as they also dim the object you are trying to see. Optimum magnification as I recal was between 75 to 100x with my 8" & patience at the eyepiece. Also moving the scope in the location your looking sometimes lets you catch a glimpse of the faint fuzzy you're after.

M3, M94 & cat's eye are nice objects. Why not try the eskimo nebula, not too tricky to find & can take a good bit of magnification. 

Happy hunting.

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Cheers for the list DD, should get a go at ticking a few off if this weather holds  :clouds1: . What would you recommend filter-wise? I've tried a SW LP filter, but it didn't seem to do much for my skies. Probably even less now that the local school has decided to leave their LED floodlights on 24/7... <_<.

I use a UHC filter - they're great for enhancing emission nebulae and planetary nebulae, but naff all use on galaxies. I've never used an LP filter, but I've never heard especially good things about them.

DD

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