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Collimation tips, TS 15x85mx


Chris

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Hi,

I bought these second hand last week, they must have had a knock during their travels because they show double stars everywhere! They appear about 1 apparent cm apart and are mainly miscollimated on the vertical axis. You can't even use them for daytime as they stand.

I contacted the seller and he said they should be easy to collimate using the screws under the rubber covers to the prism housings. I've had a go on 2 nights now and all I can say is none of the 8 screws seem to have an effect on the image, it doesn't seem to matter if they are completely loose or tight, I've tried many combinations and the image still appears double in the exact same way :(

I'm just wondering where I can go from here? Is there something that I'm missing?

I've had some bad luck when buying second kit over the last year and have already lost hundreds of pounds, these have just cost me 240, not sure what they would be worth spare or repair if I can't fix them.

I know everything is fine as long as you have your health, but some times other stuff just sucks! :( 

I've taken some pics of the screws I've been adjusting, any advice appreciated :)

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Hi Chris. The following link could help, but please be careful, and there's no guarantees it will sort it.

http://www.cloudynights.com/page/articles/cat/articles/how-to/%E2%80%9Ccollimating%E2%80%9D-binoculars-r408

As you will see, the collimation screws are on the main barrels, not on the top plate, yours binos could of course be different.

Good luck !   Ed.

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Thanks for the link Ed :) After reading it I've learnt that I wasn't even considering exit pupil. I've just held them up to a light and they look very close to round if not round on both sides. I can't see any cats eye appearance anyway. From what I've read on the link, this could be either a good thing or a very bad thing. If both the exit pupils are round then there is no prism tilt which would point towards either the first set of prisms or even the objectives being out.

I can only plan for this not being the case because if it is the case it's game over! :(

I think the Oberwerk's in the link are like the Strathspey's in the UK? But Oberwerk do an Ultra model which is probably more like the ones I have. If the collimation screws are elsewhere I would be a very happy man as the screws I've demonstrated on the pictures do absolutely nothing to change the image and this would explain that. However, the guy who sold me them is sure they are the right ones because he had to collimate the 20x110 version of this bino and he used the same screws.

I'm just baffled that if they are the correct screws, why don't they do anything? :(  

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I, too, was also surprised that the screws that are the ones that usually hold the end covers and eyepiece support detail could have anything intended to do with collimation. The intersting link highlighted the problems of using the prism tilt screws (usually the first port of call) if the collimation problem is severe. Many binoculars, particularly the more expensive models have objectives set in eccentric cells that can be rotated to correct collimation. These tend to need lens "spanners" to safely undo them and sometimes the cells are threadlocked at manfacture.  :smiley:

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My apologies for not paying closer attention to your info & pictures above.

The four screws, per prism cover, are only for the prism covers themselves, they are not for conditional alignment of the internal prisms.

Stan

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Hi Stan, if you are sure then that is very good news! :) it would indeed explain why the screws didn't have any effect on collimation :D I think the fact that Peter is also surprised by the position of the screws also ads weight to this.

So weird though, the guy who sold me the binos was so convinced he had collimated his 20x110's this way! He must have just got lucky and assumed the screws did the job.

Now, should I start to lift the rubber at the sides of the prism housing to see if there are screws similar to the ones shown on the Oberwerk's in Ed's link?  

I now know that if the exit pupil looks round then any proper alligment might need to be done at the objective lens end with a lens spanner as Peter says, but it's certainly worth finding the actual collimation screws and doing a conditional collimation then see how the exit pupil looks.

They are only moderately out of collimation so I might get away with this if I can find the actual screws.

Thanks for much for the link and input by the way :)

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I, too, was also surprised that the screws that are the ones that usually hold the end covers and eyepiece support detail could have anything intended to do with collimation. The intersting link highlighted the problems of using the prism tilt screws (usually the first port of call) if the collimation problem is severe. Many binoculars, particularly the more expensive models have objectives set in eccentric cells that can be rotated to correct collimation. These tend to need lens "spanners" to safely undo them and sometimes the cells are threadlocked at manfacture.  :smiley:

Hi Peter, may I just clarify, are you saying that these are the collimation screws, or that you would be surprised if they were?

I would say the collimation is mild to moderate, so hopefully I can get away with tilting the prisms without loosing round exist pupils. If I can can some way of adjusting them. 

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Hi again Chris. I'm as certain as I can be, that the pics in your original post have nothing to do with collimation. But it's possible

that removing those top covers ( the ones that give info on make, objective size and magnification etc ) could reveal internal collimation screws.

But if it were me, I'd investigate if there are any screws as per the link I gave. No guarantees of course.......there's no telling what

an individual manufacturer may have decided to do.

Hope you sort it, Ed.

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Hi Ed, thank you :)

I have removed all the screws and tried to see if the covers would budge, but they are very firmly attached. I think they must either be glued or there might be more screws on the side under the rubber armor.

I think they seal these binos really well because they are gas purged/water proof. I think I'll try and lift the rubber around the sides and see what's there next :)

I'm sure I'll get to the bottom of it eventually, and it will be something else learnt :) 

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Ok, I've just lifted the rubber all the way around the right prism housing about 1cm down the binos. I can confirm that there are no screws on the sides of the binos. I'll have to re-glue this rubber down at some point.

Erm? now what  :icon_scratch:

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Yeah, I don't think it's going to economically viable to send them to TS for repair. 

I would happily collimate them myself, if only I could find any screws that adjusted the prism tilt?? the ones on the front plate do nothing and there are non on the sides?

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The collimation screws on my BA8s are on the prism covers (under the rubbers) - they are slot-head screws that are usually concealed under silicone plugs. Beneath te silicone is a rubber plug about a quarter of an inch long. In your second image above, one of them is the hole at approx 11 o'clock from the cross-head screw on the extreme right of the image - it looks like the rubber plug is stll in the hole. The other one is the hole second from the left in the same image.

If you remove the prism covers, you will lose the dry nitrogen filling. The three identical cross-head screws hold the cover plate in place. The other screw on each side is the nitrogen purge hole.

If you get stuck, you could see if Action Optics or OptRep will repair them out for you.

Edits:

#1. I can't see any evidence of eccentric rings around the objective lenses of either of my BA8s, so don't rush out to buy peg spanners just yet! :grin:

#2. I've just noticed your "none of the 8 screws" comment: given that there are 6 cover-plate screws, 2 nitrogen purge screws and 4 prism adjust screws, I suspect that you have not yet "discovered" the prism adjust ones under their rubber plugs; apologies if I am wrong.

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One more thing, Chris: the collimation screws are very "stiff" (this is a good thing, if you yhink about it) and require a surprising (to me, anyway) amount of torque. This also means that it could be easy to damage the screw heads, so make sure your screwdriver fits well and that you use enough longitudinal force to prevent it slipping and causing damage.

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One more thing, Chris: the collimation screws are very "stiff" (this is a good thing, if you yhink about it) and require a surprising (to me, anyway) amount of torque. This also means that it could be easy to damage the screw heads, so make sure your screwdriver fits well and that you use enough longitudinal force to prevent it slipping and causing damage.

Great link :smiley: thanks, Ed.

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One more thing, Chris: the collimation screws are very "stiff" (this is a good thing, if you yhink about it) and require a surprising (to me, anyway) amount of torque. This also means that it could be easy to damage the screw heads, so make sure your screwdriver fits well and that you use enough longitudinal force to prevent it slipping and causing damage.

I'm so pleased :) I've just had a 10 minute gap from the kids and have removed one of the plugs. I can see the slot head screw at the bottom of he hole! After two previous trips out, and several hours trying to collimate the bino with the wrong screws, this is a massive relief, and I'm very grateful to you Steve for pointing me in the right direction :)  

I will be sure to use a good fitting screw driver, even if I need to buy one specially!

Found it! This is the page that taught me how to find the correct screws: http://www.astrovox.gr/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15900 - a google translation (automatic if you use Chrome) is good enough. Konstantinos is "pleiades" on SGL.

Great link, I would have never of found it!

Hopefully the next time I post I will have some good news :)

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One more thing, Chris: the collimation screws are very "stiff" (this is a good thing, if you yhink about it) and require a surprising (to me, anyway) amount of torque.

This is a very good learning experience, myself included;

I have never experienced a binocular with the collimation screws located through the top prism covers. bigblush.gif

My apologies.

We learn something new every day.  Thank you Steve. waytogo.gif

Stan

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Good news! :)

Only took 5 minutes to collimate with the right screws! No more vertical or horizontal miscollimation, and the exit pupils still look round, maybe just a millimeter off the left side, but I expected worse.

I had a good look at the Moon and the contrast and sharpness was superb, my wife Bella was impressed too, very little false colour. Jupiter showed two moons either side and hinted at banding even. M42 had set behind the house but I think I saw the two smudges of M81/82. 

My Horizon tripod also performed better than I thought. 

Very pleased :)

Thanks again to everyone who helped and especially Steve. I second Stan's remarks, We learn something new every day, and I feel I know my binos better now  :)

Here are some pics of the actual collimation screws down the holes with the rubber plugs removed, just in case it's handy for anyone else in future:

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