BST Planetary Eyepiece

[Dr Hamzonian]

Hi Guys,

So I am looking for a nice eyepiece for good planetary views. I have been scouring the forum, and it seems the general consensus is that the BST can't be beat, and Sky is the limit is where they can be bought:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-25-5mm-BST-Explorer-Dual-ED-eyepiece-Branded-Starguider-/380679674710#shpCntId

They sell for 49 british pounds plus 3 pound shipping to Canada.  That's about a $100 Canadian.

A few questions that I would like some help with:

1. Has anyone oudside the UK ordered from Sky is the Limit? particualary, USA or Canada? I am worried about additional taxes or customs.

2. I currently use my stock SW "super plossl" 10mm with a celestron 2x barlow to get a similar magnification. For say looking at Jupiter, will the BST 5mm simply blow this out of the water? or will it be a marginal improvement?

3. I have found a Starguider branded eyepiece from a US seller (seems legit):  Are those the same eyepieces as the UK ones? just as good? see here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Agena-1-25-Starguider-Dual-ED-Eyepiece-60-deg-AFOV-FMC-5mm-/111334028575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec06751f . They are also about $100 canadian, customs might be an issue, though likely easier to figure out.

4. Finally, any recommended alternatives for that price range?

Thanks! looking forward to your feedback.

[alan potts]

I am sure any of the BST range can be beat but maybe not at that pricing point. Many recommend them and many on site have them. I believe these are the same as a range sold by OPT in the US under the name Astro Tech. There may well be other outlets for the same eyepieces.

I also would tend to think that the old Meade range of Series 5000 SWA's would out perform them and give a wider view. These are now sold as MaxVision in Europe and there are many recommendations for them on site. There are also some in the shorter focal length UWA range on the site for much less than they once cost but this is going up in price somewhat but worth looking at.

Any of the ExSc range of 82 degree UWA which element wise are the same can be bought from Teleskop Services at about 100 at time, these too I am sure are better than BST's but not twice as good, going up in price only offers subtle improvements in view not dramatic.

However these could be difficult to access from Canada and my advice would be to cherry pick the massive USA secondhand marketplace looking for Meade or Explore Sc.

Alan

[Charic]

On price alone, here in the UK, compared to the 5 or so branded versions of the same eyepiece, the BST Starguider was the cheaper option for my needs. They work very well on my f/6 telescope and for my eyes alone. Eyepiece selection will always be very subjective here!

You don't mention your telescope, Im assuming its a Skywatcher from your use of the SW 10mm. The 8mm was the better lens for the 10mm replacement? The 5mm is ok, but better conditions are desirable, but I only tend to use the 5mm on the moon.

I'm happy with all the EPs in my signature for use on my Skyliner 200P.

[Ant]

Charic, are you on a commission for BSTs?

I don't think I have ever seen a post from you when you don't mention them, and in some posts you even say that they are better than anything else, whilst I fully admit to being far from an expert in eyepieces, I doubt very much that's accurate.

Ant

[stevend]

OPs sig states a Sky-Watcher 200P Dob. I found the BST 8mm a big improvement over the stock 9mm that came with my scope, no experience with the 5mm but I have no complaints with my BSTs.

[ronin]

The Agena eyepiece is the same, they come out under a few names. Another is Astro-Tech as the Paradigm eyepiece.

In general it appears that Astro-Tech were first on the scene.

The eyepieces are made by Barsta and are available to retailers from them, hense (I guess) the name BST (BarSTa). However they are branded under a few other names, Orion and Olivion being 2 and there will be more.

One possible consideration for planetary use is that they are in 5mm, 8mm and 12mm form. The Celestron X-Cel's come in 5mm, 7mm, 9mm then 12mm so there is 1 more and the gap is closer which may be of advantage in planetary viewing.

If I recall the cost of the X-Cel's in the US are very close in price to the BST's and from general reading they perform almost identically. Over here they are 20% then BST's more, from Agena X-Cel's are $69. So just $3 or $4 more.

Just looked and the Agena site has a price of $65 for the Starguiders, the ebay site has $66.

Astronomics do not have any Astro-Tech paradigms in stock at present.

Astronomics have relocated and it looks like until they are settled at their new place they are basically not trading/selling much.

[damnut]

Ouch Ant  ... Thats a balanced review from Charic.

Another vote for the BST's, punch above their weight. Now loosing a little gloss with the releases of cheaper 68 deg FOV eps though.

[Reeny]

Agena were selling the Explore Scientific 82 degree eyepieces for $98us when I was looking 12-months ago (£66 brand new, with free postage to US).

http://agenaastro.com/eyepieces.html?ca_ep_series_bucket=315

The new price has risen since then - but you should be able to get hold of something second hand for much less than $90us.

From cheapest to highest cost, I use a GSO/Revelation 42mm eyepiece, 68^o Maxvisions (24mm/16mm), 11mm ES82, and a 6mm Delos.

The Explore Scientific is the best in my box.

It has similar optical quality to the Delos, at less than half the price, with the additional field of view.

You would probably need 11mm and 6.7mm / then use a decent barlow with the 11mm to get 5.5mm (=110x / 180x / 220x)

4.7mm will be too much.

Or get yourself 3 or 4 BST / Xcel 60^os for the same price, with 22 degree less view.

Everyone will have their favorite eyepiece combinations.

Ask 10 different people and you will get 10 different answers.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Charic, are you on a commission for BSTs?

I don't think I have ever seen a post from you when you don't mention them, and in some posts you even say that they are better than anything else, whilst I fully admit to being far from an expert in eyepieces, I doubt very much that's accurate.

Ant

       There is a truth in this post.

they are just budget EPs and improvement on the default EPs supplied but thats where this also ends.I appreciate there are people on budgets and these will provide good views in most cases,but scope has to be F6 and slower.This is the issue with most budget (low priced)Eps,not corrected optically for faster scopes as that requires more advanced optics etc and you cant do that for 49 quid.

But there is nothing wrong by enjoying and having a blast with what you have and what you can afford isnt?

[Moonshane]

Personally, I'd sooner have a used Televue plossl than a new other brand eyepiece for about the same price (£50-60). In fairness to Charic, I could also be accused of being blindly loyal to Televue eyepieces as a brand (I am not saying he is, but I am!) although I do acknowledge they are not a magic bullet, just well made, well built, perform great and sell easily.

[bingevader]

There are a lot of us using budget 'scopes, so budget EPs to go with them does make sense if you are on a tight budget.

However, as an alternative, my Williams Optics SPL EP is lovely, if the 12.5mm is as good as the 6mm, then it would be well worth it.

Also, the Celestron X-Cel LX series are fine EPs, I can vouch for the 5mm and 7mm and they come up regularly second hand.

But if you can get them in Canada, I'd go for the Maxvision.

[Charic]

Charic, are you on a commission for BSTs?

I don't think I have ever seen a post from you when you don't mention them, and in some posts you even say that they are better than anything else, whilst I fully admit to being far from an expert in eyepieces, I doubt very much that's accurate.

Ant

No commision.

I'll take a look later to see where I have stated that their better than anything else, as you put it? as I'm not qualified to suggest that without comparison !

Help me out if you wish to find it?

I will always mention them as I see fit, for the purpose of adding input to any replies. I see no harm in reccomending the BSTs.

Not sure of your tone or intent on this matter?

[hgjevans]

 The 5mm is ok, but better conditions are desireable, but I only tend to use the 5mm on the moon.

My experience has been similar - I dare say the 5mm BST might be fine for planetary views if I just had better seeing conditions. But every time I've tried it on Jupiter in the few weeks that I've had it I've just ended up putting the 8mm back in - I simply haven't had steady enough seeing for it to stand a chance of giving a good performance.

But where it has really come into its own, for my use anyway, is on globular clusters - coincidentally my favourite objects. Back in November I was using the basic SW 10mm (a modified achromat, I think, rather than the OP's Plossl) barlowed up to a 5mm equivalent. The improvement of the BST over that set-up is massive - and that despite the globulars now being in my light-polluted NE-SE skies, rather than my darker S-NW skies, as last autumn.

One criticism I would mention is that the 5mm BST arrived with a surprising amount of stray grease from the twist-up eyecup much closer to the optical surface that I would like to see - that didn't apply to the 8mm and 12mm which I got at the same time, though. Anyway, a bit of judicious mopping with a tissue removed the offending lubricant before it could get onto the glass, and all was well. Still, for less than £50 I've really no complaints.

[Charic]

       There is a truth in this post.

they are just budget EPs and improvement on the default EPs supplied but thats where this also ends.I appreciate there are people on budgets and these will provide good views in most cases,but scope has to be F6 and slower.This is the issue with most budget (low priced)Eps,not corrected optically for faster scopes as that requires more advanced optics etc and you cant do that for 49 quid.

But there is nothing wrong by enjoying and having a blast with what you have and what you can afford isnt?

I was specific in my post........( f/6. My eyes )

[Charic]

Every reply on a forum should help or sway the originator of the original question, and to help them, where we can, make their own decisions based on/from the feed back they read. Its only opinions, and yes, some hands on experience, but were not all the same!

Everything to do with the telescope and eyepiece is subjective, and always will be? There is no right or wrong, its down to personal choice, but it gets awkward when we start being too critical of each others comments.

[Scott]

I guess the money no object thread might have people wondering

[ghostdance]

To be fair to Charic - the original post was about the BST...and apart from his well-posted love of the Starguider he has 'championed' the Revelation/GSO plossls going for chips on Astroboot.

But  tho I don't have extensive experience of different eyepiece makers/brands, and certainly not the experience & knowledge gained over time that some noted members have, I am persuaded that in general you more likely to get what you pay for with certain makes. That doesn't of course preclude a budget brand punching above...tho it may not change a welterweight into a heavy. 

Each to their own. Me, I'm with Moonshane -  happy to be a TeleVue user and indeed 'fan' -  so far nothing I've used made by them has disappointed in any way

[YKSE]

1. Has anyone oudside the UK ordered from Sky is the Limit? particualary, USA or Canada? I am worried about additional taxes or customs.

2. I currently use my stock SW "super plossl" 10mm with a celestron 2x barlow to get a similar magnification. For say looking at Jupiter, will the BST 5mm simply blow this out of the water? or will it be a marginal improvement?

3. I have found a Starguider branded eyepiece from a US seller (seems legit):  Are those the same eyepieces as the UK ones? just as good? see here: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Agena-1-25-Starguider-Dual-ED-Eyepiece-60-deg-AFOV-FMC-5mm-/111334028575?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19ec06751f . They are also about $100 canadian, customs might be an issue, though likely easier to figure out.

4. Finally, any recommended alternatives for that price range?

Thanks! looking forward to your feedback.

I've had 8mm and 12mm BST starguiders, they're good value for the price with very good eye relief. But I don't rate them highest as planetary eyepieces. It's not likely that it blows your barlowed plossl out of water, if the tock one are decent. However, A 5mm University HD ortho will be noticeable better than your barlowed 10mm plossl, at about the same price level as BST, the con with the 5mm University HD ortho is the short eye relief(4mm), it'll be too tight if you must  wear glasses in observing.

[Reeny]

If the view is 100% good - it doesn't matter what the name badge says on the side of the eyepiece.

I am tempted to get either the 8mm BST or 7mm Xcel for our 76x700mm travel scope.

Sometimes you don't need £100 eyepieces.

However on the dob - I like to have a wider field of view for less nudging.

Hence the move away from Plossls, and onto the wider stuff.

60^o BST's and 68^o Maxvisions were recomended as the best budget eyepieces available at the time.

Question 1. Has anyone outside the UK ordered from Sky is the Limit? = I don't know anyone, sorry I can't help

Question 2. will the BST 5mm simply blow this out of the water? = I gave the standard 10mm SW away, it was rubbish. Your Super Plossl might be better, the BST will be better again.

Question 3. Are those the same eyepieces as the UK ones? just as good? = Yes, already answered

Question 4. Finally, any recommended alternatives for that price range? = BST's are the cheapest, with Xcel's and Maxvisions about 20% more expensive.

Note: MV's only go up to 16mm, so you will need a 2x Barlow for 150x mag.

[ronl]

The BST Starguiders are a very good and excellent value eyepieces, and I find they suit me and my scope,

they might not suit everyone, but in my case they certainly do, the planetary eyepieces are BST UWA, which

I have a couple, and I don't use them very often, they don't have the screw up eyecup which the Starguiders

have, to me that makes a great deal of difference in comfort, comfort at the eyepiece makes observing a pleasure,

I like to observe a target at great length, so I think that type of comfort counts a lot, the views I get from all my

Starguiders are, very good, but like all eyepieces the seeing has to be reasonable, someone mentioned observing 

Jupiter with the 5mm, I find that most of the time, if used with a Baader Neodymium filter, the detail is very good,

like every thing, it takes time to get used to something, and knowing its strengths and weaknesses, and observing

the same target at length heightens the experience, I like nothing more than to get a great view, even if it take a

while to come, there are better and more expensive eyepieces out there, but if you find a cap that fits, stay with it! 

[John]

To avoid the possible complexity of ordering from the UK, Agena Astro in the US do the same eyepieces at similar, maybe a little lower, prices. Might be worth a look through their eyepiece selection before importing from the UK:

http://agenaastro.com/agena-1-25-dual-ed-eyepiece-5mm.html

PS: I think this answers your question 3: yes they are the same eyepieces.

[Charic]

Ant #4 .......Why should I mention something else  if this is what I use? The original post was about the BST! And I still dont recall saying their better than everything else?

stevend.....Cheers, I did miss the signature block information?

auspom #16 .....I still didn't say BSTs were better than everything else in the "money thread"?

I could so easily have bought TeleVue, still can,  as money is not an issue for me, How I spend it is?

I cant envisage that from my light polluted environment, a Televue kitted f/4 or faster telescope will give me much more than I get already with my present set-up?  Its all about personal choices and opinions, and what suits you best.

Dr Hamzonian...... your link appears to be the real deal under the Agena branded version. The general specifications  are similar to the Astro-tech Paradigm. There is a video here ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHYh6QmSunY )showing the 8mm.

William Optics have their SPL range for planetary work. I have the WO SPL 6mm. This is a fabulous eyepiece which matches the focal ratio of the 200P  giving a 1mm exit pupil and 200x power,   fine for Planetary work, or take their 12mm SPL for a 2mm exit, and Barlow  this for the 6mm. A fine eyepiece hitting the focal ratio of the 200P and the sweet spot around 12mm?

[Dr Hamzonian]

Thanks guys, very helpful information. Seems like Agena astro is a good place for Canadians to order from (a quick google turns up that orders are tax and duty free). Too bad the canadian dollar took a dive vs. the american in the last few months.

Glad to see lots of advice from 200P f/6 users.

I will narrow it down a bit based on your advice, and hopefully get your feedback on which is the "best" bang for my buck.

In the mean time, I realize that eyepieces will always be subjective, but to be honest, I AM looking for strong opinions (e.g. charic your opinion about the BST is very much appreciated), so keep them coming please!

[Reeny]

....... someone mentioned observing Jupiter with the 5mm, I find that most of the time, if used with a Baader Neodymium filter, the detail is very good,.......

The 5mm will work very well in the 200p Explorer where the focal legth is 1000mm, and it gives an ideal 200x maximum magnification.

But the OP's 200p dob is 1200mm focal length.

The 5mm will give 240x in the dob, and be too much magnification most of the time (>50%).

6mm / 6.7mm / or 7mm will work better for Jupiter (or the 12mm and 15mm barlowed).

The 5mm will be worth getting at some point - for use on the moon, or when Jupiter is very high in the sky during exceptionally good seeing conditions.

It's also worth having a 280-300x combination for those once a year occasions, just in case.

[Dr Hamzonian]

Ok guys, I have taken all your advice into consideration, and did some shopping around. I have come to the conclusion that at least for me in Canada, and for the price range I am looking at, the used market is not worth it. So, here is what I have narrowed it down to, all new eyepieces. Please tell me we what you would buy (feel free to be strongly opinionated).

Prices before shipping and taxes are given in US dollars:

1. Starguider BST Dual ED 8mm or 5mm ($65)

2. Celestron X-Cel LX 7mm or 5mm ($69)

3. Meade Series 5000 HD-60 9mm or 4.5mm ($79)

4. Baader Classic Orthoscopic 10mm or 6mm ($87)

The Meade series if bought in a set comes out to $67 a piece, which is always an option as well, and puts it in the same price range as the BST and celestron. I have included the the Baader ortho in there because apparently good quality orthos offer the best contrast for big planets like Jupiter, albeit with little eyerelief.

Scope is a SW 200P F/6 Dobsonian. This will mostly be used for Jupiter, Saturn, and the occasional Mars. Please give me your final thoughts based on the above four options. Thank you for all your help and guidance!