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Canon 7D Mk2 - Anyone using one yet?

SkyExplorer

By SkyExplorer
in Imaging - Discussion

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SkyExplorer

SkyExplorer

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HI,

Is anyone using the new Canon 7D Mk2 yet?  I'd be interested to hear any comments on whether the sensor noise is as good as this review suggests as I am considering upgrading my 450D to this camera.

There seems to be some recognition that "Canon banding" has been eliminated. 

http://www.clarkvision.com/reviews/evaluation-canon-7dii/index.html

Cheers

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SkyExplorer

SkyExplorer

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The only images I've seen so far are from nice dark US skies, be interested to get an insight as to how the camera performs in a less than perfect sky, compared to say a 450d or similar aged camera.  

I would guess you would spent less time processing the stacked image made from a camera with less noise, (no banding), etc.

I'm still waiting for APT and DSS support before pointing mine skywards.. I think BYEOS already has support... 

Peter...

Oh, I did not realise APT does not support the Mk2 yet..... wonder when they intend to get an update out to address this? 

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lensman57

lensman57

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The only images I've seen so far are from nice dark US skies, be interested to get an insight as to how the camera performs in a less than perfect sky, compared to say a 450d or similar aged camera.  

I would guess you would spent less time processing the stacked image made from a camera with less noise, (no banding), etc.

Oh, I did not realise APT does not support the Mk2 yet..... wonder when they intend to get an update out to address this? 

This point is very important in evaluating any imaging camera. There is just no comparison between two images taken with identical cameras but one under a true dark sky  and the other one from our light polluted and murky urban locations, the latter will always be ridden with excessive noise and weak signal even with the use of a top quality Lp or even a NB filter.

A.G

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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If the clouds would disappear I will point my 7DII Skywards...

I  have fairly bad Low Pressure Sodium LP which I take care of with a front mounted 77mm IDAS filter...  I shot nearly 4 hours of Lovejoy with the 5DIII on the 18th so would point it in it's direction again with the 200/2.8L II

Peter...

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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I have had the camera indoor under a black towel to do worst case darks.

A Pair of fully Charged E-6's (no tthe newer slightly higher capacity E-6N's)  in the grip were at 9% caapcity after 60 x 300s exposures... 

At the end of the run the camera was quite warm to the touch. the batteries in the grip were cool by comparison...

I have 40 x 300s ISO800 and 20 x 300S ISO1600 to examine noise levels and trends  later...

All in camera NR was turned off...

The size of the jpegs can tell you a story.... The size increases as the noise level in the dark frame changes...

Canon%207DII%20%2040%20x%20300s%20ISO800

Followed immediately by 20 x 300s ISO1600

Canon%207DII%20%2020%20x%20300s%20IS0160

Composite of 1st , 20th  and 40th frame of sequence - Linear stretch applied to raws in ACR  - saved as Jpeg... 19MB download

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/8191904/7D%20II/Dark%20tests/7DII%2040x300s%205s%20pause%201%2020%20and%2040%20shot%20comparison.jpg

Links to the 7D II Raws and Bias... these vary between 20 and 40 MB's depending on noise level and you will need something to open them...

I have used Exiftool  http://www.sno.phy.q...~phil/exiftool/  to analyse the files and get the temperature values...  added after the link for each file

ISO800 #1 https://dl.dropboxus...00 Shot (1).CR2 22C

ISO800 #2 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (10).CR2 38C

ISO800 #20 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (20).CR2 43C

ISO800 #30 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (30).CR2 45C

ISO800 #40 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (40).CR2 46C

ISO1600 #1 https://dl.dropboxus...00 Shot (1).CR2 46C

ISO1600 #10 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (10).CR2 46C

ISO1600 #20 https://dl.dropboxus...0 Shot (20).CR2 46C

ISO 1600 Bias https://dl.dropboxus...ias ISO1600.CR2  44C

The camera was controlled using a "beta" version of APT  which I have been testing for Ivo and reporting back any small issues - like the temperature measurement    - That's now fixed  so it will if Clearoutside is right be tested under the stars on Thursday night...

Peter...

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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Nope the plan I had was 40x300s ISO800 5s pause followed immediately by a 40x300s ISO1600 5s pause  - the battery level was shown as 9% after the 20th exposure at ISO1600 so I stopped the run there...All my cameras have the "official" Canon battery grips and use Canon original rather than clone batteries.

The towel was to make sure there was no light leakage but also to keep the heat in as heat is one of the major causes of changes in noise levels...

Over the weekend I will probably repeat the experiment in the obs and see how the temperature rise changes...

Peter...

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SkyExplorer

SkyExplorer

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I use the official canon 240v adapter rather than a battery as far simpler, no need to go out and keep checking the battery during the image capturing process.

I guess as I do not use the battery the heat build up will be different (maybe less).

So yes 40x300s exposures at ISO800 with 5 second pause (between each exposure or after all 40?).  I'm not going to do ISO1600 with my 450D as it's unusable at that level.  I am considering imaging at ISO400 to try and reduce noise.

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cgarry

cgarry

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I'm still waiting for APT and DSS support before pointing mine skywards.. I think BYEOS already has support... 

Peter...

Does PIPP correctly handle the CR2 files from this camera?  I try to keep the DCRAW code in PIPP up to date so it might.

If it does handle them then you could throw your lights, darks, flats and bias files into PIPP and get it to spit out calibrated image files in TIFF format that DSS can handle.  This is obviously not PIPP's primary purpose but could get you going until DSS catches up.

Cheers,

Chris

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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Cheers Chris I will have to try it thanks for the info :)

The 3.3.4 beta rar for DSS displays the 7DII's raws properly so I am hoping it will work...

5 seconds between each sub...

I have an external 6000mAH Lipo pack and dummy battery for the 5DIII and 7D2 so can use that - I was interested to see what the standard batteries could do...

The clear spell that I was hoping would give me Astro firstlight with the 7DII has slipped 3 hours since yesterdays forecast which would put lovejoy into the trees... I was hoping to do a comparison to the 5DIII data I grabbed on the 18th..

I might used the cloudy period to do some outdoor temp profiling which would also get the camera to a stable temp - hopefully...

Peter....

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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Orion is a real pain from home I can only image the belt and sword in a gap between the tress that is lined up with the central heating flue... It's hard to convince everybody to go to bed early so I can switch it of an hour or so before Orion comes into view and keep it of for the hour and a half or so that the belt and sword are accessible...

Peter...

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Psychobilly

Psychobilly

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It still hasn't cleared here and to make matters worse the AV software had updated and started a scan - causing APT to hang  after only 8 darks - forgot to turn of updates and scanning  AAAARRGHHH!!! :iamwithstupid::BangHead: 

So put the kit away for the night... 

Run started with a temp of 9C... I haven't even analysed the other frames to see what the temperature rise was :(

Peter...

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RikM

RikM

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When APT is available I will see about running my 7DII up against my 1000D on a side by side bar. I have two 18-55 IS II kit lenses so it should be as fair a test as I could manage. An alternative lens set could be 50mm f/1.8 vs 17-55mm f/2.8 IS taped at 50mm with both of them at f/4.

I am not planning to use the 7DII as an astro camera but I'm quite happy to help out with comparison testing.

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SkyExplorer

SkyExplorer

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When APT is available I will see about running my 7DII up against my 1000D on a side by side bar. I have two 18-55 IS II kit lenses so it should be as fair a test as I could manage. An alternative lens set could be 50mm f/1.8 vs 17-55mm f/2.8 IS taped at 50mm with both of them at f/4.

I am not planning to use the 7DII as an astro camera but I'm quite happy to help out with comparison testing.

That would be brilliant, thanks :)  I'd very interested to see how much better the 7D2 is.

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SkyExplorer

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I created 40 x 300s ISO800 darks using my 450d (covered with a towel at room temperature).


The file size for image one is 13.1mb and rise steadily to 17.9mb for the 40th image.


Looking at Peter's file sizes for ISO800 I can see the 7d Mk2's first image is only 3.8mb in size, a whole 10mb less than the 450d's first image size.


By the time I have reached 40th frame, the 450d is up to 17.9mb, where as 7d Mk2 is at 15.8mb.


The 7dmk2 file size has increases quicker than the 450d, however I was not using a battery for my darks so this may have a bearing on the noise level.


I download Peter's raw files for his ISO800 shots and auto stretched (boosted) them in PixInsight along with my 450d files so I can ascertain a direct comparison.


Here is the composite image for frame 1, 20, 30. and 40, I have only included the left half of each 7dmk2 image, as they are consistent across the width of the frame.  You will notice that from shot 1 to shot 40 the 7dmk2 darks frame are pretty much identical, however the 450d change a fare bit.


Shot 1


Compare_ISO800_shot1_zpsa9be54f9.jpg


Shot 20


Compare_ISO800_shot20_zpsef0166f0.jpg


Shot 40


Compare_ISO800_shot40_zps07718ab0.jpg

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