Why can't I see Comet Lovejoy?

[kevinbright]

Hi everyone, 

I bought a telescope over the summer (Celestron Nexstar 127SLT) and I was initially super impressed by my views of the moon and Saturn.  The moon was pretty neat, but not much of a "wow," as compared to Saturn.  I was really impressed with Saturn and really excited to see it with my own eyes.  It was fairly small in my telescope, but crisp and clear and the rings were easily visible.  

I then tried to move on to DSOs, and that's where my success ended.  I aligned my telescope using the two-star align feature.  I followed some pointers I got on here about making sure to use stars (rather than planets) that were as far apart as possible and not too close to the horizon or directly overhead.  I confirmed that the alignment was right by slewing to known objects (like Satrun) and checking the accuracy.  

I went through 20 or more DSOs in the telescopes database, but I never saw even a single DSO.  Every time I looked, it looked like empty space.  I think I may have seen the Ring Nebula, but I could never be sure.  

Anyway, I received some advice on here to the effect that summer time viewing isn't the best and that the viewing should improve in the winter.  I have issues with LP, being in Sewell, NJ, only about 12 miles outside of Philadelphia.  

Back in December I tried observing Comet Finlay.  I check some references online and found that it should be just below Mars in the evening sky, which would be super easy to find.  I got on my telescope and began searching, but found nothing.  I probably spent a good 20 minutes slewing around and couldnt see anything that even remotely resembled a comet.  

Fast forward to this month...  I've tried to find Comet Lovejoy, which is much harder to spot (in terms of location) than Finlay was, but I'm still not seeing anything.  I've just learned that I can put in the RA and DEC of the comet and have my telescope slew me there automatically, so I'm going to give that a try.  I also broke down and spent some money on some new eye pieces that should be here Friday.  I got two Celestron X-Cells, a 25mm and a 9mm.  I've read that new eyepieces can really help the optics on this scope.  

Other than that, is there anything else I can do?  Am I just screwed because of my location and LP?  I took a couple of trips this past summer and over Thanksgiving, one to Long Island, New York, which would have been perfect, but my telescope wouldn't fit, and one to Deep Creek, MD, which was cloudy the entire time.  

On a brighter note, I did get to look at Jupiter for the first time during my failed attempt at Comet Lovejoy, which was pretty awesome.  

Kevin

[Moonshane]

It is easy with small bins. Find the hyades cluster in Taurus and this almost points at the comet. Look right of the hyades a couple of bino widths and then up. It should then shown in bins as a fuzzy ball.in the scope it will be a fuzzy ball with a bright core. The position changes slightly each night hence recommendation for bins first.

[kevinbright]

Thanks... I'll try to dig out my old binoculars and have a look with those first. 

[Helen]

Hi Kevin,

The 127 is particularly good on the Moon and planets, DSOs are tougher but don't give up as with experience you will start to see more.  There are a few 'tricks' that might help you.  Firstly, make sure your eyes are properly dark adapted - 20 minutes is optimal.  Secondly, try looking off from the centre of the eyepiece (called averted vision) as your eye is more sensitive in the dark away from its centre - try looking centre then off centre and back and see if anything appears while you do so.  Thirdly, try tapping the scope will you're looking.  It sounds daft, but your brain picks up movement and so if a faint DSO is in the view your brain may notice it movement.

On the comet, as Shane says start with binoculars, then when you know where the comet is try with the scope.  

Good luck - it is worth the effort   

Helen

[fondofchips]

Right so I'm not familiar with your telescope but you should be able to see Comet Lovejoy with it OK.

1. Try & find Comet Lovejoy with binoculars first if you have them, this will give you a more accurate patch of sky to aim your telescope at.
2. The best DSO for your first shot at it is the Orion Nebula, as a general rule aim for the brightest & closest objects first, Moon. Jupiter etc.  It is not going to jump out at you, when I first saw it I thought it was a wisp of passing cloud, when it didn't move I knew it was something else, I had found the Orion Nebula.  Like Saturn it is not going to be huge or bright.
3. For items that are not in the Goto database like Comet Lovejoy then you may need a finderscope instead of the red dot finder.  It needs to be accurately aligned with the main telescope for best results.
4. The eyepieces you have purchased will be a good improvement over the ones you got with the scope.  It takes time for your eyes to adjust to the dark but also practice at getting your eye in the right spot in front of the eyepiece.  This may sound daft but move your eye around the eyepiece and closer/further away slightly.  Your eye needs to be in the correct position, try it on a brighter object at first when you are able to have a longer session.  It took me a few months to get this right.
5. Set up whenever you can, even for a short time. you will soon gain confidence with finding targets, more of the setup will become routine giving you more time to experiment.

Just get out there, the rest will come with time, the learning curve is steeper than most hobbies.

Cheers & Clear Skies.

Fondofchips.

[RichM63]

Also spend time when you can't get outside studying a program such as Stellarium for the objects that are in your normally viewable areas of sky. It really helps you to learn what is up there so that when you are outside you have a reasonable idea of where and what to look at.

You can also set such a program to emulate your telescope and eyepiece combination so that it only really shows what you are able to see on a clear night.

[kevinbright]

Thanks guys... all good advice.  I'm going to give some of your suggestions a try.  Hopefully we'll have clear skies on Friday when my new eyepieces arrive.  

[todd8137]

The Moon as no wow ? It's my all time fav ,if you get a good starry night and high power the moon is just spectacular ,hope you find the comet

Pat

[DRT]

Kevin,

I initially had trouble finding the comet until I started using this.

You need to put your location into the box in the top right and then select the date and time and it creates star charts that allow you to accurately locate where it is at any given point in time.

It also gives you the settings you need to punch into your Goto.

Best of luck - it is worth seeing when you find it.

[Lowjiber]

Lovejoy C2 is a very easy jump from M45.  I was viewing it last night (mag 4.9) and could even see it with my 8x50 RACI in Las Vegas skies.

Clear Skies

[ronin]

There is an option on the scopes to help in locating DSO's (in a way) they go to a near bright star and then you accurately centre that, using that as a start point they then make a short hop to the DSO.

You are going to have to look it up as I have no idea what the title of it is.

You can effectively do it yourself, goto a bright star near the DSO and center that, then you tell the scope that it is aimed at the star, called Sync on a Meade and again I forget what on the Celestron, but it is there. You then goto the DSO which again is a short hop. Might be PAE but check.

The X-Cell will give about the widest field of view you will get, there is one option I know of for slightly wider but not enough to consider.

As others have said try binoculars on Lovejoy, however it is faint so scan the area of the sky fairly slow.

[cotterless45]

We're on the edge of town with security and street lights. However comet Lovejoy has been quite obvious by eye for the last few nights when clear. Through x8 bins it is a spectacular sight. Well worth looking out for,

[kevinbright]

Thanks...  I inputted the RA and DEC numbers into my handset last night, so I'm going to have a go at it again on Friday night when my new eyepieces should arrive.   It's supposed to be clear, but maybe windy... hopefully not too windy. 

[barkis]

Kevin,

              Moonlight is going to reduce the chances of seeing DSO's in a good light. (No Pun honest  )

I rather suspect your DSO hunt was at a period when the moon was not in the same sky.

Dark Adaption is essential also, so give your eyes time to adapt.

I'm not saying anything you are not already aware of, so please don't be offended.

Low power eyepieces for DSO's too of course, once located you can increase the power little by little until the object dims too much.

When you do locate dim objects, give it plenty of eye time, it is surprising how much more is revealed, the more you look. Averted vision too 

helps when observing those distant time objects. You have a very nice telescope, give it time to serve you well.

Good Luck.

Ron.

[Paul M]

Thanks...  I inputted the RA and DEC numbers into my handset last night, so I'm going to have a go at it again on Friday night when my new eyepieces should arrive.   It's supposed to be clear, but maybe windy... hopefully not too windy. 

Be sure to use the RA and DEC for the time you are going to observe.

As the comet moves swiftly across the constellations it's coordinates change night by night and hour by hour.

Stellarium or some such will give you the right numbers for whenever you plan to view.

[kevinbright]

Thanks again for all the help everyone...  I gave it another go last night and although I still did not have success finding the comet, I did have great views of Jupiter and three (maybe four) of its moons and I saw my first DSO!  It was the Orion Nebula, which is probably a pretty easy one, since you can spot with the naked eye, but it looked amazing in my telescope.  

I couldn't get the TOGO to work though.  I tried it several times and each time it was off when I tried to automatically slew to Jupiter.  Eventually I realized that my batteries were dead, so maybe that was affecting the accuracy.  I did replace the batteries and tried again, but it was still off.  Not sure why but, believe it or not, one of the new batteries actually exploded inside the battery compartment!  I was just sort of panning around the sky trying to find the comet and I noticed that it seemed very sluggish for fresh batteries.  All the sudden, I hear a small explosion sound that sounded like it was coming from inside my telescope, followed by a slight hissing sound.  I thought one of the mirrors inside the telescope burst from the cold or something, but the optics seemed fine.  I took the battery cover off and saw the exploded battery, which I promptly removed.  I cleaned the battery holder with baking soda to get rid of the acid and everything seems fine.  

Anyway,  I must have the worst luck when it comes to looking for this damn comet, lol. 

I'm going to try again tonight.  Skies are supposed to be clear, but maybe a little windy, so we'll see.  My new eyepieces are supposed to arrive today, so I can try them out.  I plan to get the damn thing aligned and then enter the updated RA and DEC numbers to slew to the comet, since finding it manually hasn't worked thus far.  

[happy-kat]

If you install settelarium (it is free) you can then install the comet plugin and then it is much easier to find comets. This is how we have been finding it as it moves so fast where it was yesterday is not today.

[stevend]

Short on time so excuse the brief tone;

I think Comet Finlay was fairly dim and may have needed 8" aperture so not you or your scopes fault, maybe just a bit ambitous ?

Power source is everything with a GOTO, I strongly recommend getting an external one and not using batteries.

When GOTO becomes GONEAR use the re ALIGN feature on a star near to your target.

The SLT's weakness is DSOs; try clusters and doubles first.

You do not say what EPs you are using but low mag is important for anything apart from planets and in poor skies (edit: just seen you are waiting for new ones, I suggest using the 25mm = 60x).

I find Lovejoy (and other comets) by referencing with eg Stellarium and star hopping or using binoculars first.

P.S get or make a dewshield.

Stay with it the 127SLT is a nice scope.

[kevinbright]

If you install settelarium (it is free) you can then install the comet plugin and then it is much easier to find comets. This is how we have been finding it as it moves so fast where it was yesterday is not today.

Stelarium (sp?) has s comet plugin?  I didn't know that... should make it much easier.  Thanks.  

[Paul M]

Stelarium (sp?) has s comet plugin?  I didn't know that... should make it much easier.  Thanks.  

It isn't very intuitive for those not familiar with such things.

Myself and others have posted "how to's" for updating the comet file in stellarium. The SGL search tool should bring something up.

[kevinbright]

Short on time so excuse the brief tone;

I think Comet Finlay was fairly dim and may have needed 8" aperture so not you or your scopes fault, maybe just a bit ambitous ?

Power source is everything with a GOTO, I strongly recommend getting an external one and not using batteries.

When GOTO becomes GONEAR use the re ALIGN feature on a star near to your target.

The SLT's weakness is DSOs; try clusters and doubles first.

You do not say what EPs you are using but low mag is important for anything apart from planets and in poor skies (edit: just seen you are waiting for new ones, I suggest using the 25mm = 60x).

I find Lovejoy (and other comets) by referencing with eg Stellarium and star hopping or using binoculars first.

P.S get or make a dewshield.

Stay with it the 127SLT is a nice scope.

Thanks for the help...  I'm going to look into rigging up an A/C power adapter...  I should be able to get what I need from Radio Shack.  

[kevinbright]

FYI, for anyone else looking, Radio Shack has a 12V, 2.5 amp AC adapter for $27.99, and there is a link on their website for a $10 off $25 coupon if you sign up for emails, so the final cost should be $17.99 plus tax.  It looks like they carry it in most stores too, so no shipping. 

[kevinbright]

My new eyepieces arrived and all I can say is WOW!  Huge difference, especially the 9mm eyepiece.  The one that came with the scope was fuzzy and dim.  The X-Cell is bright and crisp.  I feel like I got a new telescope.   It is AMAZING how much of an improvement it is.  

As soon as they came, I knew they would be would be a big improvement.  They weigh probably five times as much as the stock eyepieces and and are much larger.  They just feel much more solid and better quality. 

I still couldn't find the damn comet, but looking at Jupiter and the Orion Nebula was awesome!  

I'm definitely having trouble with my SkyAlign.  It was slewing very slowly even though I had brand new batteries in it.  It was acting as if the batteries were almost dead, even though they were new.  I don't know if the cold weather affected them or what the problem was, but I'm definitely going to get an AC adapter tomorrow and try that out.  

At a couple points, it actually stopped responding to my arrow buttons and I got an error message that said "No Response 17.  Press Back Button To Continue."  Pressing the back button did nothing, so I had to turn it off and back on.  I'm not sure what that means, but something is definitely not right.  I was using Rayovac Batteries, so maybe that was part of the problem.  

Anyway, I'm going to give it another try tomorrow night and hopefully I'll be plugged in so I can rule out the battery issue.  

Kevin

[DRT]

Kevin,

Are you using re-chargeable batteries? If so that might be the problem as they have insufficient voltage to power the scope.

Good to hear that you like the view through your new eyepieces - they certainly make a big difference.

Derek

[kevinbright]

Hi, they are not rechargeable, but they are a cheaper brand, so that may be part of the problem.

The good news is I found a 12v, 4amp ac adapter for an old LCD TV that works with my telescope, so I'll give that a try tonight.