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Monster eyepieces.


alan potts

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I was using the LX the other night in the observatory and could not help my mind wandering to think what it would be like with the new offerings from ExSc.

This is of course the 100 degree 30mm 3 inch eyepiece which I imagine my scope could take, if I put down some extra concrete and re-bar to handle the weight that is. I saw these two items on the Teleskop Services site which I often use to see what's on the market along with FLO and Tele-house.

Both not on the market that long and already at discount prices, the eyepieces with a wopping 200Euros off at 1199Eu and the diagonal also with a reduction at 464Eu. Now maybe the diagonal comes with a connection adapter for the SC scope but that is 1663 Eu for the pair, if not further outlay would be required.

This is rather a lot of money when you think you can buy a 10 inch 1/8pv Orion Optics Dobsonian at 1410 Eu or a 12 inch OTA of the same quality for a hundred and some more for the EQ mount. I can't help but wonder who is going to buy this type of eyepiece, it really is not everyones tipple.

If I were given the choice I would go for one of the scope options.

Alan

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I am trying to imagine an eyepiece over twice the weight of the 21mm Ethos or 31mm Nagler and then there is the diagonal, I can believe that even with the fairly large clearance under the back of LX when pointed at the zenith there is going to much in the way of space, maybe the diagonal connects directly to the back. I think it is a very good thing that the likes of ExSc have done some R&D of their own and branched out so to speak but I can't see them selling many as Jules said.

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I don't expect we will see many appear on a forum like this, but then we're not exactly running observatory class instruments. When I looked through the Northumberland Refractor at Cambridge University, I was amused that the 'planetary' EP I was looking through was a 55mm TV Plossl. That's a 14ft focal length (IIRC) for you!

When ES announced this monster, I like many newbies thought this was odd, but even a cursory Google throws up plenty of 2.7, 3 & 4" EPs. The thing I noted was that the ES not expensive in this company. Have a look at this page. I'll let greater brains than mine figure out the aFOV and exit pupil advantages, although my extremely limited knowledge of this level of astronomy seems to indicate field curvature seems to be more of an issue. It's not often you see a TV (Panoptic 35mm in the case shown on that page) held up as an example of what amateur eyepieces do wrong.

And anyway, value for money judgments are very much subjective. Nobody would look on with anything other than envy if a member on here had ponied up £8k+ for a 6" APM triplet, plus £4-5k to mount it. Against that, a £1k EP isn't exactly obsequious and even if you bought all of the ES100s, the scope would still be more expensive than the EP case. Not many of us can say that.

Russell

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These monster eyepieces are the results of craving ultra wide field of view. I don't think people could imagine an eyepiece as big and heavy as the 31mm T5 before the Naglers.

As long as there're market for it, i.e. astronomers wanting wider FOV, there'll be bigger and heavier eyepieces coming out, I'm afraid.

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Yong,

I may be wrong here but I think people knew what Tele-Vue delivered in a 2 inch eyepiece after the birth of the 20mm Nagler type 2, I believe it was even bigger than the 31mm Nagler, so it must have come as something of a relief when the first 31mm's were unboxed that you didn't need to be Superman to use it. Of course you know the 20mm Nagler was put on a lettuce leave a day diet and came out looking like Wonderwoman.

Alan

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Alan,

I see now it's the 20T1 took that honor :smiley: , I'm sure it deliverred great 82 deg FOV, but not quite sure it's as good as Al had hoped for. The now known kidney bean effect was introduced by the T1s, as a matter of fact, Al needs a patent to correct that unwelcome side effect:

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4747675.pdf

As I see it, new design of eyepiece is an extremely difficult work, it takes a couple of generations(e.g. T1 to T4-T6) to make it as good as the inventor(s) has/have intended.

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Yong,

It was T1 was it? I only really got back into astronomy when we had T4,5 and 6. When I was first into the hobby back in tht mid to late 70's I don't believe Televue existed as a company, if it did they had only just started. It was those days when orthos were the cream and they still hold there own now.

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I think ES see the product more as a technology demonstrator than a mass market product.  Rather in the way that Ford bring out 'show cars' at big car events - few of these make it to mass market and production but its a kind of 'state of the art / proof of concept' type things.  Most large manufacturers so this kind of thing and even some of the smaller ones.  I used to work for an electronics company and we would periodically roll out stuff that was very high end and outside our market base but we did it to kind of say 'yup - we are very serious as a corp and we can make exotic stuff too' we never expected to sell any of it but it kept our profile up.

There will be some exotic frac owners who can use this eyepiece and there is probably enough of them to justify it coming to market but I would bet ES did it just to show how serious they were - it wasnt so long ago people said ES was just a cloner blah blah blah so it gives them some clout as a serious player.  Dont forget ES have solid backing and can easily afford this kind of thing.  This thread kind of proves the point - its got their name out there in a small way - but every little helps in the game of marketing and brand positioning.

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This is pretty good info on Televues Nagler path http://www.scopereviews.com/page2.html ES competes with the latest Naglers not the Delos/Ethos IMHO and this big 3" ES 30mm would work very well for its intended purpose I think. They are starting to make products that others don't, showing their capability.

Televue is capable of designing and producing most any eyepiece well, but being a small company need to sell what they make and I hope that they can continue leading the widefield pack for a long time.

BUT my 18mm ES competes extremely well with my 16mm T5 Nagler and that big 30mm ES 82 is no slouch either-no astig @ f 4.8.

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I agree there is no doubt that ExSc seem to spreading it's wings and branching out into new territory. I find it interesting that many of their 68 and 82 degree designs were generally thought to be exactly the same as Meade's Series 5000 ranges, whether they were or not maybe we will never be sure, I have my doubts after testing a recent 4.7mm UWA. I started a thread on this some time back saying  that all of the UWA range now cost less than the Meade's once did and are even now less than their own SWA (68 degree) range. I have my doubts about the quality but this was only from memory of my once owned Meade 4.7mm which I recall being better, it is a shame I never heald on to it so I could be sure.

Going back to treading new boards arguement, many say, though I have never seen one, that the 11mm of the ExSc UWA range is the best of the series, interestingly a focal length not in the Meade range, this would appear to have been the start of their branching out. All other focal lengths were directly from the Meade range though the 18mm did undertake a change with a 2 inch fitting though it is reguarded to be the same optic design from what I have read.

After this we had the 120 degree, see you feet whilst observing 9mm eyepiece and the 25mm 100 degree mega wide, which I have to say I could be interested in. As one or two in thread have rightly said it is good to see a company pushing the envelope even if not everything appeals to you.

Alan

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It's interesting to see that where ES have produced a more innovative product, eg: their 9mm / 120, 25mm / 100 and 30mm / 100 3" eyepieces, those products are significantly more expensive than the ones where they have been able to simply adopt someone elses design.

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John,

A very good point but the sort of thing one would expect, there is a possibility that the 11mm UWA was just a F/L that was not marketed by Meade and they just picked it up. I was wondering when I wrote the piece if the 3 inch 30mm 100 degree could be just a scaled up version of the 21mm Ethos though I don't know enough about optics to know for sure. My feelings are they had to start with a blank sheet of paper, which in any case is a step in the right direction as far as I am concerned.

One of the reason I stick with TV and Pentax is it was there R&D work that was copied to a large extent and I don't care how much I read how good ExSc, Meade or whoever are, the two brands in my cases with my eyes are better. If Nikon were more readily available I would also have included at least one of them in the mix. Must not forget my little collection of Hutech and BGO orthos which are also very good quality.   

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As I see it, eyepiece business is no different than any other business, you put money on R&D, get your market share and use necessary protections (patent as Nagler did)  to protect your business. It's not easy, but business none the less.

We, as consumer, do make our own decisions when buying eyepieces, if we choose to support the R&D work, we'll buy new eyepieces, or we can choose, like most of us, buying used to cherish our hard-earned money. :smiley:

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Just to make it clear i am no angel, I do have secondhand eyepieces but about 50% of mine I have bought new. It is only if I see something come up on the UK S/H market and the seller is happy to send it to me that I get lucky, or if I am in England. There is a very small secondhand market here for such eyepieces, these are very expensive to Bulgarians, they cost a lot to me as well.

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I like buying new Televues as this does support their R&D and the company in general- all the used sales must impact their business. TV knows this though and upped the bar with the Ethos/Delos line, leaving ES and their own older design EP's a way back. ES's constant "sale" policy puts a lot of pressure on competitors, and TV has started their own discount sales.

Now with the new ES models TV offers no similar EP for competition.... lets hope TV can continue to do well.

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Now with the new ES models TV offers no similar EP for competition.... lets hope TV can continue to do well.

I'm sure they will. And the good news is that greater competition between suppliers is good news for us consumers.

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I fell off my seat when I got my 28mm UWAN.... Screwed up the scope balance. For those wanting to look for large galactic nebulae you actually need another kind of "green eyepiece" which will cost a wee bit more than even this monster.... Got to use the right tool for the job ;-)

Cheers

PEterW

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