It's time to go Mono. Help please?

[Iainp]

Hi all.

My Xmas cheque has been cashed and I'm ready to get a  mono camera. Advice on which one please? This should really be on the Equipment forum, I know, but it follows on from previous discussions here, so hope it's ok here.

Right,  here goes:

1) My existing colour camera, the Skyris 618C is clearly not suitable for imaging.

2)  I can stretch to spending £500 now, or if advised, wait to get something even better in the New Year. 

3) It's to use with my Lunt 80mm, which will be Double Stacked as soon as I'm properly rich.

4) Robin suggested the  ASI120MM-S as a good one to go for, and seems to be available for around £270, which is well within budget. 

 5) Many on the forum here favour the Flea 3.  There seem to be many different versions though. I saw one price of £409, which again would be easily affordable. Is there one Flea that stands out as more suitable for solar work?

6) Is there anything else around £500 I should be looking at, or are these 2 options the main ones?

7) The main use is for solar, but it would be great to be able to use on the Moon too.

 

Thanks for any help you can offer. I'm hoping there is consensus as to which way to go, but life rarely seems to be that simple!

Regards, Iain 

 

 

[Luke]

Last time I checked earlier in the year, the favourite for me around that price (we're considering a second cam so we can both image at the same time) was the Point Grey Blackfly USB3 1.3MP Mono, though of course I have not used it so cannot first hand recommend it. Frame rate looks sweet to me, 30FPS, and my preference is CCD sensor if possible though don't let that put you off of going CMOS if you have researched well and have found some CMOS cameras that are getting good reviews for solar and producing good solar images. One CMOS camera I thought about (a big Grasshopper 3 CMOS) does not seem to have fared so well for solar so far, so I think proceed with caution if going CMOS and make sure it has proven itself for solar.

The Blackfly looks similar to the Point Grey Chameleon that some folks have been producing some fab images with for solar, but with a faster frame rate that looks handy. I think this camera looks a safe bet but very interested to see what other cams folks reckon, if the Mrs receives a decent cheque in the post too (she is due one but doesn't know the size!) then we could be in business too

[Stardust]

This should be a good thread as I've been asking myself the same question for an upgrade.

I use a QHY5L-IIM, which I originally  bought for guiding and lunar work. As far as my processing skills allow (still slowly crawling round that learning curve) it seams to be doing a fairly good job on Solar imaging.

I'm sure there are better cameras and apparently is oversampling with my scopes, which I understand is better than under, but there is an optimum.

I have been considering the Blackfly but hear of issues with the usb3 version with the ethernet being an easier option.

To get the best you gigE, now my old obsy pc has neither this or usb 3 so would mean quite an investment to change unless it will work with standard ethernet.

The best thing is to ask Rupert at Astrogragh as he will tell you the camera most suited to your scope, I received a very comprehensive answer to that question.

I'd really like to see some images taken with a Blackfly and similar scopes to mine to be able to see the difference. 

[Iainp]

Thanks both. i'll wait a day or 2 for other suggestions/opinions then make a decision. That also gives me time to Google words like gigE, CMOS and Ethernet

[Steve Ward]

Piotr's the man to ask about cameras , he's a wealth of information , "riklaunim" on SGL ... http://stargazerslounge.com/user/5460-riklaunim/

[JamesF]

The issue that often seems to come up wit the ASI120 cameras and the QHY5L-II is the "ring" artefacts that can appear in the image which are as far as I understand it a problem because of the design of the sensor.  Mostly they seem to process out, but if I were in the market for a camera for purely solar imaging I might be tempted to avoid them for that reason.

At the focal length of the 80mm Lunt I'd guess you want a fairly large sensor otherwise you're going to be into a fair bit of hard work with the mosaics.

The Point Grey Chameleon and Atik GP are the same camera internally, so the latter may be worth a look if you're also considering the former.

James

[Pete Presland]

i have seen a few of the older DMK21AU04 around on ab&s, mine used to be a pretty reliable  camera.

[Davey-T]

I'm looking for something that will give me a full disc with the LS60, presumably we need a 1/2" sensor, the PG B'Fly does half a disc , I'm using an old Minitron at the moment that gets a full disc but has automatic gain control which isn't helpful for Solar imaging, and it doesn't work with Fire Capture so I have to use a separate video program.

Not familiar with DMKs the only thing I seem to remember is peeps complaining that they were "slow"

Can't see any point buying another 1/3" sensor camera myself as I have the PG B'Fly ICX692 which works superbly with the Quark but you're in a different position I guess.

Will have a word with Rupert to see what he recommends when I have salted a bit more astro spending cash away .

I see you can order a Quark and have it for Christmas now, bit like a new sofa 

Dave

[JamesF]

i have seen a few of the older DMK21AU04 around on ab&s, mine used to be a pretty reliable  camera.

Small sensor size though.  You'd be looking at quite a hefty mosaic with the 80mm Lunt.  A 1/3" sensor might give you a two-panel mosaic whereas a 1/2" sensor or bigger would probably get the entire disc in a single frame.  Big sensors are sadly far from cheap however.

James

[David Smith]

DMK41? Think Robin still uses the 41.

[Montana]

So do I

[JamesF]

As do I.  Awkwardly however mine is FireWire and my laptop doesn't have a powered FireWire connector.  That's not a problem in the long term, but in the short term it would be very handy if I could find a way to inject power into the FireWire connection.

James

[Davey-T]

So do I

What sort of frame rate do you get Alexanrda ? some people were quoting single figures as compared to 30fps for the PG B'Fly.

Nothing wrong with the result though

Dave

[JamesF]

I don't think the USB DMK41 will do more than 15fps because it just can't push data down a USB2 connection any faster.  I've just tried my FireWire model and it appears to be the same.  USB3 seems to be the way to go for higher frame rates at that kind of resolution (unless you fancy Gig-E).

James

[Montana]

15fps always, unless your exposure is too long of course. The software is very easy to use and it is very reliable, I love it. Even the hubby can use it and that is saying something. I didn't like to suggest it as everyone would just call me old fashioned. The 15 fps is plenty enough for imaging the Sun in most cases.

Alexandra

[Stardust]

My qhy runs around 20fps on a decent resolution. Up to 55 on 640x480 handy for those windy cloudy days just to get something, like today as it happens.

Can someone tell me if a gig e blackfly will run on a standard ethernet connection and likely fps please.

Im considering one and would like to known what improvement I'd see

[Davey-T]

Mine runs at 30fps, plugged into the standard ethernet on laptop, don't know if the B'Fly has the same size sensor as the QHY though.

The ethernet can be a bit of a pain at times, you need to disable your network or go out of range like I do and occasionally it loses all it's settings and Firecapture can't find it.

Would like to get a bigger sensor but going from 1/2" cmos about £250 to 1/2" ccd getting on for a grand and there doesn't seem to be anything in between.

Dave

[Iainp]

Oh, I was afraid of this. I was hoping everyone would come up with the same answer to save me having to think for myself.  Was it Sartre who said something along the lines of "we stand trembling before our freedom" ?

Thank you all for very helpful suggestions, I'm still not sure which way to go, but I suppose I don't actually have to have it in my Xmas stocking so there's no rush to buy today.  And yet... 

[Davey-T]

Skyris 274 1/2" £765.00 may give full disc with LS80 need some mathematical genius to confirm this.

PG Grasshopper 1/2" £949.00

Dave

[Iainp]

Ooo nice, but my wife won't stand for it (goodness knows, she's suffered enough ). What about the Skyris 445M? A snip at £549, reduced from £669?

https://www.widescreen-centre.co.uk/Products/Celestron_SKYRIS_445M_CCD_.html 

[Davey-T]

Don't think the sensor is as big as the 274, like I said need to find an expert or someone using one, there was someone said they had one a while back, will have a search'

Dave

[JamesF]

Skyris 274 1/2" £765.00 may give full disc with LS80 need some mathematical genius to confirm this.

PG Grasshopper 1/2" £949.00

Dave

It's not hard  The LS80 has a focal length of 560mm, so that's 206265 / 560 = 368 arcseconds per mm at the focal plane.  The Sun is about 1920 arcseconds in diameter at its closest, so that's 1920 / 368 = 5.2mm diameter at the sensor.  You probably need a bit more for proms and "wiggle room".  The Skyris 274 would do that in a single frame by the looks of it.  The 445 would need at least two frames.

If you said you'd need at least 6mm on a side then the diagonal will be sqrt ( 2 x 6 x 6 ) which is about 8.5mm or just over 1/3".  And that's 1/3" on a square sensor, which most of them aren't.  So a 1/2" sensor is really going to be required for a single frame full disc.

James

[Davey-T]

Show off 

Could you do the LS60 for me please (should have paid more attention at school)

Dave

[JamesF]

Show off 

Could you do the LS60 for me please (should have paid more attention at school)

Dave

The LS60 has a focal length of 500mm as far as I can see, so the image scale is 206265 / 500 = 413 arcseconds per mm, meaning the solar disc will be 1920 / 413 = 4.65mm diameter at the focal plane.  So for that you'd probably want a sensor that was at least 5mm on the shortest side.  The Skyris 445 might do that, but you've not got much to play with -- there's very little "spare" sensor around the disc to give room for proms and imperfect tracking.

James

[Iainp]

I agree Dave, the geniuses of this world always think it's easy  . Thanks both. So, James, if I'm not so bothered about full disc, I can get away with the 445 and save a few hundred pounds? Very tempting.   The DMK41 is also a temptation, considering the amazing images users on this forum produce with it.