Refractor Factor (for visual)

[scarp15]

Hi

I am considering aiming to fill in a gap left since I departed with my Celestron 8 SCT celestar.

I am looking for a scope that I can use more as a grab and go, primarily for planetary as well as lunar, binary (and perhaps filtered for large diffuse nebula). This will complement my VX14, which I use principally for dark sky observing and not from home - though it is quite versatile. 

In terms of refractor, I am interested in the Skywatcher ED 100mm, perhaps to be mounted on either an AZ4 - the version with steel tripod / or a vixen porta ii. I think that the quality of the optics based on retail cost and the F9 ratio (therefore not too long) should mount securely and be quite portable for carrying to my observing location, a short walk from home. I am though additionally open to looking at second hand options via ABS / Ebay. 

The other alternative I am considering to a refractor, is an 8" Newtonian, perhaps F6, preferably with high quality figured mirrors and dobsonian mounted - just missed one (OOUK OTA) on ebay which sold for £159. 

The other reason, is to be able to transport in a vehicle, in which I am not the only occupant (as is the case with the VX14) such as on family trips. 

Thanks for any input.

[Jim Steele]

I can reccomend the Tal100RS, its an Achromat so does have some false colour but at F/10 it is very well corrected the views are simply stunning and contrasty!

They also make good white light solar scopes with Baader film or a lunt wedge.

Its my only scope, fits under my bed when not in use and easily packs in the boot of my Hyundai Getz with room to spare; arguably the mount takes up more space.

The AZ4 or Porta II should be a fine fit with it, though I mount mine on a (old) CG5.

Ben

[spaceboy]

I would give the Skymax 127 on a giro mount or AZ4 worth a thought.

[glynnlondon]

I have the tal 100 r an older version of the rs and its mounted on an az4.

I find it a great set up with lovely views of jupiter and the brighter dsos.

I have just sold my first scope a skywatcher explorer 130p and in comparison the 130p shades it on dsos but very little in it.

The tal 100 r wins easily on jupiter.

If you want a good priced achro frac you wont find better than the tal 100 in that price range.

[estwing]

If I was ever going to get another frac the Tal is the one for me

[jetstream]

I love my SW120ED, but it is not portable IMO and my 90mm frac while good doesn't have enough resolution for me these days. I wonder if a nice C6 XLT would fit the bill? I heard they are good and not too big.

[Caldwell14]

The AZ4 & ED100 make a very nice combination. I used to run this very outfit as does Keith from our club. We both put extension piers on ours. I still use a modified one with my Newtonian. Anyway it's a nicer balanced outfit and optically for visual just about as good as it gets. You never hear anybody complain about the views through a ED100

[John]

Another vote for the ED100 / AZ-4 combination here

Having owned a few including my current ED120 I reckon the Synta ED doubets are really excellent.

[damnut]

My vote might take you a bit off piste but ... My grab & go is an az4 with an ST120. Why, it goes everywhere, roofbox, back seat boot. Impervious to sand, snow & dog slobber. No way would I put an ed through this ... Yes a bit of CA on bright objects, but plenty of apperture for dso's. And if it gets damaged not a great expense compared to an ed! As for occupants of vehicle, Wife & three setters...

[nightfisher]

I used the TAL100 on an AZ4 for a good couple of years, in the end i found the TAL was JUST a tad to much for the AZ, so i sold the mount and got a skytee 2, now the TAL is rock solid on the mount, however, a 100ED would be very nice on AZ4, also i used my 150p ds on the AZ with a lot of success, another idea is the 150 pro mak on AZ4, this works very well

[scarp15]

Thanks, a lot of good informed advice and suggestions.

In terms of Newtonian's, would anyone have any opinions concerning, for example, an OOUK VX 6L - F8 / OOUK VX 8L - F6, with regard to planetary observing? Either of these options I would equally like to consider (with 1/10 pv wave mirrors)  and as I can lug my 14" around, they ought to be fine for handling in that respect.  

In addition, any opinions with regards to Lyra Optics F11 refractor and finally whether an ED120 would still be adequately mounted on an AZ4 (with pier mount) - though Damien has already indicated his ST120 will.

[Luke]

I have the SW ED100 DS-Pro, it is a bit long, with its fixed dew shield and being F9 (the case is a touch longer than the Equinox 120's), but it feels very light and is a breeze to carry, cool down is pretty fast, so it does work as a grab and go for me. I often use it with a Giro mount.

Optical quality, not bad at all, and for solar it is a cracker with a Herschel wedge for white light or Daystar Quark for hydrogen-alpha.

I have given it a few little shoot-outs against a Tele Vue 85 on planets and really, the ED100 held its own and kept its place in my frac line-up. The 85 is far more compact and is built like a tank, and had a slight touch more contrast, colour and sharpness I felt, but the 100's extra aperture did tell on planets, resolving finer detail, and it also tells with solar if you might get into that. I was not that keen on the 100's focuser and replaced it with a Baader Steeltrack, but some folks seem to get on okay with adjusting the focuser.

The Equinox 120 I find on the other hand a bit more of a handful, so I tend to use the 100 more for a quick look/on the giro mount.

[F15Rules]

I've owned the Lyra, ED100 and Talk 100RS models. All great scopes in different ways:

Lyra- by far the best build quality of the three. Very sharp optics which for me just shade the Tal but not much in it. Also has a superb crayford dual speed focuser.

Tal- great all round package and you might find a new one in stock somewhere for c£250 or so with great bundled accessories, truly exceptional value and a good bit cheaper than the Lyra. Optics are also very good.

ED100- best optics of the 3 with zero CA when used visually. Build is very "adequate" though unless you go for the newer SW Pro or Equinox versions. Fabulous optics though and you could dabble in imaging a bit with this one I believe, as it's pretty much CA free.

There was an as new Lyra advertised on UK Astro recently, don't know if it's gone yet ( nothing to do with me;-)..if still available I'd go for that, or if not place an ad for a Celestron ED100 version- have seen them go for not much over £200- amazing for an apo!

HTH

Dave

[scarp15]

Thanks for that Dave, I had seen the Lyra Optics add on UK astro, I think it might be still current - requesting £300.

Cheers Luke, actually I notice that there is a Televue 102 currently listed on ebay though the buy it now price is something a little over £1.4K. 

[Luke]

Thanks for that Dave, I had seen the Lyra Optics add on UK astro, I think it might be still current - requesting £300.

Cheers Luke, actually I notice that there is a Televue 102 currently listed on ebay though the buy it now price is something a little over £1.4K. 

The Tele Vue 102 is on my wish list! If I get one at some stage, I think the ED100's days may be numbered... But that may never happen as my main game is solar now and the ED100 is a real joy to use with the Quark, I don't feel much of a need to change it. Still, I keep dreaming about the 102!

[John]

....... finally whether an ED120 would still be adequately mounted on an AZ4 (with pier mount) - though Damien has already indicated his ST120 will.

I can comment on that one as I've tried using my ED120 on my AZ-4 mount this very evening. My conclusion is that the AZ-4 is not up to holding the ED120 steady enough for more than medium power observing, say up to 120x or so. I used 180x and even with the AZ-4 mounted on the CG5 tripod with it's 2" steel tube legs the vibrations took a long time to die down. Switching the ED120 onto my Giro-type mount gave an immediate improvement.

The AZ-4 is very steady with my ED102 F/6.5 Vixen refractor though, even at 200x.

It's not just the weight of the scope that puts the mount under pressure, the length of the tube makes an even larger difference because of the forces that act on the mount head from the tube. The single fork AZ-4 has it's limits as I found tonight.

On the Skywatcher / Synta ED scopes optical quality, I've read quite a few reports where they are compared with much more expensive scopes (eg: Tak and Tele Vue) and acquit themselves very well indeed. The overall build is adequate but not in the premium league but optically they are up amongst them it seems.

[scarp15]

Great thanks, based on many of the accounts, I can see the logic for considering a Skywatcher ED 100, combined with an AZ4 mount and perhaps in addition an extension pier.  The focal length is 900mm, which would require evaluating my eyepieces. For high power, they are fine working with my 1600mm scope, particularly with the added paracorr, but currently 8mm is my highest power e.p. I would need to at least look at 6mm (delos) for 150X (gosh it just never ends ).   

[rowan46]

I use a c5 on a technosky elle  on a heavy duty photo tripod my gear has to be portable as I don't drive.

[jetstream]

Iain, the stars in the SW ED are amazing, the colours so vibrant- it beats my VX10 in this regard handily. If viewing the stars the ED is the scope of choice and when seeing limits the 10" it is also my choice for the planets.

The 3-6 Nagler zoom is excellent in the refractors, but with tightish eyerelief. It was my Mars EP of choice this year and also my star splitter, this is a very handy eyepiece.

Have fun with your choice, so many good options out there. Those SW ED's are excellent but the extra resolution of a bigger scope might be nice too and wouldn't cause more EP purchases immediately. But, you only live once....

[orley]

Yep, the ED100 is a cracker

[scarp15]

If I took this route, I would probably look at adding a 5mm Gerry (Pentax, Nagler) and gain 180X rather than the 50mm field of the Nagler zoom, at least with an undriven mount. Completely agree that when the seeing permits, resolution gain on planets with the larger Newtonian is fairly unbeatable, although I miss the crispness of lunar discs (too many diffraction spikes).  Alternatively adding a smaller newtonian with a focal length of 1200mm would be a better match for my current eyepieces. In addition, my actual 'grab and go' are my 15x70 bins / monopod, however I think I will miss the old C8  when Jupiter becomes prominent. In that case I might be tempted to lug the 14" outdoors for low and medium power observing, with the paracorr, I would be at a slower focal ratio F5.3. 

I take on board everyone's responses, very informed view points cheers. In the meantime, I expect to gain opportunities to specifically look through a few refractors.

[Caldwell14]

Thanks, a lot of good informed advice and suggestions.

In terms of Newtonian's, would anyone have any opinions concerning, for example, an OOUK VX 6L - F8 / OOUK VX 8L - F6, with regard to planetary observing? Either of these options I would equally like to consider (with 1/10 pv wave mirrors)  and as I can lug my 14" around, they ought to be fine for handling in that respect.  

In addition, any opinions with regards to Lyra Optics F11 refractor and finally whether an ED120 would still be adequately mounted on an AZ4 (with pier mount) - though Damien has already indicated his ST120 will.

I use a VX 8L and find it to bean outstanding planetary scope, one of the best I have used to be honest. It is just a joy to use too, uber user friendly. I had the extension pier shorted so that the eyepiece is perfectly positioned at the zenith. Absolutely no twisting into silly positions , any object can be observed standing comfortably up. I love GIRO AZ mounts, silky smooth and rock steady with my 8 inch Newtonian. My last scope was an ED120, I have no regrets switching over to my current set up

[Caldwell14]

Ohh BTW the AZ 4 is not man enough for regular use with a ED120 IMHO

[scarp15]

Yes, I enjoyed my 8" SCT for its ergonomic viewing position, as it was a classic 1990's model, fork mounted, clock drive motor with nice slow mo controls. It would fit into the car for star parties with camping kit and wife and daughter. However I felt that it had become a little overshadowed by my former 12" and current 14" dobsonian, which received most of my attention and really required the sale to fund other items. Plenty to think about cheers.

[rwilkey]

The ED100 is a great choice, I have a Synta one (branded Celestron) and it is the 'bees knees' as far as I am concerned.  I favoured the Vixen Porta II mount myself as I prefer the slo-mo controls that the AZ4 does not have.  Good luck with your purchase, the scope is great and perfect for the targets you have mentioned.