Anyone using an Avalon M Uno?

[schmeah]

Hi all. After imaging for years with an LX200R, I decided to upgrade to a mount with better tracking / guiding capabilities but hoped to maintain the simplicity of an equatorial fork. I decided on the Avalon M Uno, touted as a relatively maintenance / tinkering free, belt driven, single arm, equatorial fork with no meridian flip requirement. After more than a month with it, I am thrilled with its performance, the only issues thus far being software (StarGo) related. To date, after multiple imaging sessions, I've not discarded a single sub, nor have I lost a single sub ( mostly 30 minutes ) or a minute of sleep in imaging nearly from horizon to horizon. No plate solving. No automated flip software. No interruptions. I'm reserving a full review however until after I start imaging at longer focal lengths.

But I feel very lonely out here. Although the support from Avalon and Deep Space Products ( the US Vendor) has been excellent, I've grown used to support group and forum discussions with other owners of my other astro equipment. I rarely read posts from Avalon owners, particularly in the US where I am not aware of a single other M Uno user. Given my initial impression, I am very suprised that these mounts are not yet more popular. I hope, however, to meet some other Avalon owners on this forum and find out if there are discussion groups that they use. I know there is a Yahoo Avalon group, but only three members thus far. Anyone?

Cheers and clear skies,

Derek

[Ruud]

It certainly looks nice. I wish I could afford one!

[schmeah]

It certainly looks nice. I wish I could afford one!

Hi Ruud. Yeah, I spent far more than I intended to. When I first started thinking of an upgrade, I was looking at mounts half the cost and almost pulled the trigger on a G11 which is a fine mount. But then I thought hard about what my goals were, namely to have a mount that performed right out of the box with no upgrades or major tinkering required, one that will be my long term mount. But most importantly, I knew that if I couldn't sleep through the night, I probably wouldn't image much. I'm aware that many have fully automated their meridian flips. It just seemed like a daunting task for me. So I sold a lot of stuff (including my classical guitar... on astromart no less) and bought the M Uno.

Derek

[swag72]

Hi Derek, I am an Avalon owner, but not the M-Uno. I use the LInear Fast Reverse. I did initially look at the M-Uno, but felt that my refactor was probably too long for it.

I have been very impressed with the Avalon product and having used it now for over a year I have not dropped a single guided sub due to the mount - Due to my own stupidity..... yes!!

Can't help you on the StarGo system as I don't have it. There's quite a few Avalon ownder on SGL - But most again have the Linear Fast Reverse.

[schmeah]

Thanks Sara. I've seen some of your outstanding images, both on the Avalon website and elsewhere. They now make long columned saddle extenders that should make using long refractors easier , though may require a counterweight. I have an 80mm extender shown below, but they make them as long as 130mm.

Derek

[ollypenrice]

I heartily wish that I could have gone for this mount but I'm using a TEC140 with flattener and this would be too long and, I think, generally too much for the M Uno. I went for the Linear Fast Reverse as Sara did.

There's a lot to like, particularly the dry, long life, no backlash, self tensioning drive mechanism, the precise machining and good tracking. Since the mount comes back to the right place so fast after a guide correction I believe that it is even more accurate than its guide trace suggests. WIth the long TEC on board mine is certainly more elastic than I would like but it does not seem to have damaged any subs.

If I were using a suitable tube I'd have your version in a trice. No flip. Oh glory!!!

Olly

[schmeah]

Thanks Olly. I knew that you we're an Avalon user, and having seen your results you clearly made a good choice. There are so many things, relatively speaking that I love about this mount thus far. But my 9.25 Edge arrives today, so we'll see if I feel as enthused after getting back to longer FL imaging. I agree regarding tracking accuracy. I think we sometimes rely too much on PE / RMS etc when we discuss mount performance. It may mean less with these mounts.

Derek

[Interested]

I have ordered an M-Uno from Ian King this week. Curiously, he says he sells far more Linears to M-Uno's, so no longer stocks the M-Uno, therefore, I will have a 2 week wait. having walked round the observatory carrying cables during a Meridian flip and spent time turning cameras and re-framing targets, to me, the M-Uno will be worth the extra money over the Linear. I have gone for the Synscan version as that is tried and tested and what I am used to with my HEQ5 Pro. I will likely give Eqmod a try as well. My scopes are a Tak 85 and FLT 98 and I will unlikely be changing them in the future, so the M-uno should be ideal. Possible other purchases in the future will be a reducer for the Tak and an Atik 490 EX. If I start imaging at f3.8(9?) then I may consider buying some Astrodon (very) narrowband filters.

[Barry-Wilson]

Hi Derek

Another very satisfied Avalon Linear FR user: accurate and reliable.  Lovely fancy read colour too!

Barry

[schmeah]

I have ordered an M-Uno from Ian King this week. Curiously, he says he sells far more Linears to M-Uno's, so no longer stocks the M-Uno, therefore, I will have a 2 week wait. having walked round the observatory carrying cables during a Meridian flip and spent time turning cameras and re-framing targets, to me, the M-Uno will be worth the extra money over the Linear. I have gone for the Synscan version as that is tried and tested and what I am used to with my HEQ5 Pro. I will likely give Eqmod a try as well. My scopes are a Tak 85 and FLT 98 and I will unlikely be changing them in the future, so the M-uno should be ideal. Possible other purchases in the future will be a reducer for the Tak and an Atik 490 EX. If I start imaging at f3.8(9?) then I may consider buying some Astrodon (very) narrowband filters.

Yes, Pete, it seems that the Linear is the better selling of the Avalon Mounts. For me, no Meridian Flip was the selling point for me, alas the M Uno. The no maintenance, no tinkering belt drives and no backlash common to all Avalons is also a great feature though. FYI there is an Avalon Yahoo Users group started by Ed Thomas of Deep Space Products (US distributer) but with very few members thus far. It would be nice to have a rel support forum for our mounts. Sign up if you're interested and share your experiences.

Derek

[schmeah]

Hi Derek

Another very satisfied Avalon Linear FR user: accurate and reliable.  Lovely fancy read colour too!

Barry

Hi Barry. I've nothing but good comments from Avalon users thus far. I'm surprised that they aren't more popular.

Derek

[Interested]

Hi Derek,

When Ian told me the Linear was far more popular I asked him why. He said that the Linear was quite a bit cheaper, also, that a lot of people were worried as to whether their equipment (scope, camera/filter wheel) could hit the base/bottom of the fork arm. Ian tells me the arm has 3 positions? I found measurements for the arm length and, using the Tak, the EFW2 filter wheel will be inside the fork base. As the filter wheel hangs about 3cm below the dovetail plate when it is fitted to the telescope I have also added a dovetail plate extender to my order. I use an Altair Astro pier, which Ian thinks the mount will fit on without pier modifications (I hope!). A big selling point for me was the 'no Meridian flip' as well. Given the number of clear night in the UK, when we do have one it will be nice to do some imaging without the need to flip. I think the mount will be ideal for my scopes. Thanks for the 'heads up' on the user group.

once I have it up and running I was thinking of posting a few pics, plus any 'trials and tribulations .

[schmeah]

Hi Pete. The fork arm actually has six adjustable positions, A1-3 and B1-3 with B1 moving the fork futhest from the polar axis, and appropriate for the heavier scopes with the greatest diameter. There are several available saddle plate extenders, including columned extenders that allow you to use the polar scope with OTA attached. So long as you use the proper extender to raise the rear of the imaging train above the fork arm base, there is no risk of it hitting the base. It just means that you have to adjust the fork arm and use a small counterweight or two.

Derek

[iksose7]

Interesting thread, i dont own the M-Uno or any Avalon mount but i have a feeling that when i do upgrade it will be between the Fast Reverse and the M-Uno. I lean towards the M-Uno though for the same reason you guys did, no meridian flip!

Question though, by looking at the mount it looks like the scope would sit right in front of the polar scope line of sight. Is this the case and does that mean you must do polar alignment then fix your scope on?

Thanks

Calllum

[swag72]

I have to say that if you get SGPro to work as it should meridian flips are all done for you!!! 

Easy!! and no flip fear or M-Uno advantage!

[AlistairHowie]

Callum, you can get a dec axis extender to lift the scope out of the way of the polar scope.

[RT65CB-SWL]

It certainly looks nice. I wish I could afford one!

€5680.00 ...

...I have about €5.68 in loose change  

[ollypenrice]

I have to say that if you get SGPro to work as it should meridian flips are all done for you!!! 

Easy!! and no flip fear or M-Uno advantage!

This is what Yves says as well. However, there is that little word 'if' in there!! The point is that the flip is a pain and, if not a pain, then a source of potential unreliability. Either way it has no advantages in itself. Say we all used fork or arm based flipless mounts out of long habit. Someone comes along and says, 'Hey, I have this great innovation. You have to flip the mount half way through and half your subs will be upside down. How's that for a demon selling point??'  Not that tempting really.

So if my OTA suited the Uno that is, without doubt, what I'd buy.

An observation on people seeing the Avalon for the first time; they are seriously alarmed by the elasticity. You can wiggle the scope around on the mount. You just can. It's obvious. But it knocks out really good subs. It just does. That, too, is obvious. Curiously some people note the results and some note the wiggle. I'm in this game for the pictures so I look at the pictures and like the Avalon. In fact I like it a lot.

Olly

[swag72]

I always thought that the meridian flips were scary - But once you've done a couple they cease to be that bad. Yes of course, I'd rather not do them, but I don't find them cumbersome. Of course, if the software works  ................. (if) ............. then it's not even a bother!!! 

[Interested]

Agree with you Olly.

I don't enjoy walking round my pier, carrying my laptop, and trying to ensure several cables don't snag on something, especially in the early hours of the morning! Also, during the flip, I have to be there, in attendance. I also like the fact that I no longer have to take the Meridian into consideration when planning a nights imaging. Given the limited clear skies in the UK, I am hoping that with this mount I will increase my imaging time. As 'they' say; "every little helps"!

I was looking to upgrade my mount and liked what I have read about the Avalons. For me, the extra money (over the cost of the linear) to buy the M-Uno was worth it. Comes down to personal choice, but for me, the M-Uno is ideal for my small Tak and FLT 98 (though I do know someone that sits a C11 on his!).

Having said all the above, I have fitted and setup my OAG and setup everything to use EQMOD (and checked it out as much as possible in daylight) ........just need a clear sky now, which I haven't for well over a week!!!!!

[schmeah]

Interesting thread, i dont own the M-Uno or any Avalon mount but i have a feeling that when i do upgrade it will be between the Fast Reverse and the M-Uno. I lean towards the M-Uno though for the same reason you guys did, no meridian flip!

Question though, by looking at the mount it looks like the scope would sit right in front of the polar scope line of sight. Is this the case and does that mean you must do polar alignment then fix your scope on?

Thanks

Calllum

Hi Callum. As was mentioned, DEC extenders are available in multiple lengths which have columns that don't impede the polar scope line of site. However, if you are mounting a heavier SCT like a C11, you need to position the OTA closer to the polar axis in order to achieve proper RA balance. In this instance you can't use a long columned extender. But the mount also has an optional off axis bracket which can mount the polar scope on the side of the fork arm and allow you to use the polar scope even in this instance.

Derek

[schmeah]

I always thought that the meridian flips were scary - But once you've done a couple they cease to be that bad. Yes of course, I'd rather not do them, but I don't find them cumbersome. Of course, if the software works  ................. (if) ............. then it's not even a bother!!!

It just seems to me that simpler is better. I understand that many do fully automate their flips and some do it unattended. But I wonder what percenage of GEM users actually do sleep through the night, getting 6-8 hours of uninterrupted, unattended imaging? Plate solving, image rotation, finding a new guidestar, or more flats if rotating the CCD. Yikes! Doable yes, and I have great respect for those that do it well. But for me, without a permanent setup, it would be a headache that I would rather not deal with. And honestly, why would anyone?

So if a fork variant mount could be developed that tracked as well as the finest GEMs and could handle comparable payload, wouldn't everyone prefer such a mount? I think Avalon has the right idea. And I suspect it just a matter of time.

Derek

[swag72]

I am just starting my more automated journey - And certainly do hope to be sleeping and waking up to a set of subs!!! I do now anyway, I just need to get up and go and flip.

[ollypenrice]

It just seems to me that simpler is better. I understand that many do fully automate their flips and some do it unattended. But I wonder what percenage of GEM users actually do sleep through the night, getting 6-8 hours of uninterrupted, unattended imaging? Plate solving, image rotation, finding a new guidestar, or more flats if rotating the CCD. Yikes! Doable yes, and I have great respect for those that do it well. But for me, without a permanent setup, it would be a headache that I would rather not deal with. And honestly, why would anyone?

So if a fork variant mount could be developed that tracked as well as the finest GEMs and could handle comparable payload, wouldn't everyone prefer such a mount? I think Avalon has the right idea. And I suspect it just a matter of time.

Derek

You don't need to do new flats after a flip and it would be highly eccentric to rotate the camera after the flip as well. In fact it is usually possible to re-use flats after rotating the camera since everything likely to cause bunnies will rotate in synch. If the focuser is a good one it will be bang on axis and the vignetting will not be displaced, but if it isn't on axis or droops then you will need new flats.

Olly

[Interested]

Hi Sara,

The limit of my automation will be my electronic filter wheel and my M-Uno.

Like most, my earlier time in this hobby was spent setting the mount up in my back garden and changing filters on a manual filter wheel. I spent most of my time stood by the mount, waiting to do the next filter change. No fun when it is -6 outside! And like many of us, I have set up many times and while waiting for the scope to cool down, watched the clouds roll over and packed everything up again.

I have retired now, so don't need to sleep during the night but wanted to spend more time in my warm house.

I bought a Skyshed POD so that I didn't have to setup and wait for cool down before I could use my equipment. Like most POD owners, I have had to build a table so I can slide the dome off the walls and on to the table to reach the highest parts of the sky.

I dare say some clever person will think of a way of automatically sliding the POD dome back on to the POD, closing the roof and locking it down (I wouldn't even bother to look into it!).

So, the POD saves me a lot of time in setting up, the filter wheel means that I can spend far more time in a warm house and the M-Uno increases my time in the warm house. Hopefully, the combination will also allow me to be more productive, resulting in better quality images. This will be my first Winter using the POD and mount, so, wait and see!

I imagine you at least looked at the M-Uno when you were deciding on a new mount. You came down on the side of the Linear, I can't fault that, it is a lovely mount. Because of the size of my scopes (and the extra time I get to spend in my warm house) I decided on buying the M-Uno.

I might question equipment buys of a complete Newbie, but you are certainly not that, so I would never question your purchases!

I guess most of the people that have contributed to this thread so far are advanced enough to know what equipment they need to advance themselves further, so, I would not get into a discussion on 'what is the best mount' with any of you!

I bought my mount because it suits my needs. I agree that 'flips' become easier, but for me it is nice that I don't need too. Some people automate the opening/closing of their observatories when I think opening manually is no big deal, so, I can understand people questioning why I would buy a mount that I don't have to 'flip'.

If I was going to automate further I guess my mount would make the process a little less involved?

Regards,