Polarscope Reticule Alignment Hell Please Help!!

[bendiddley]

I have just acquired an EQ3-2 which I am going to use for DSLR wide field astrophotography and I am trying to align the polar scope reticule except it is not going very well and really need some help. Firstly when I first put the polar scope in, the vertical line on the cross was straight up and horizontal line on the cross was straight across so I assumed this is how it is meant to be and thought GREAT, but unfortunately when I unloosened one of the reticule screws the reticule came loose and spun round, then it came even looser and the screw no longer touched it as the reticule had come too far forward and the reticule was now rattling around inside the polar scope, DOH!! I thought. So I decided to take the polar scope apart and spent about half an hour trying to rotate the reticule with the help of a scalpel (touching only the outer metal rim I must add) fraction by fraction to get it so it wasn't at an angle and then putting it back in to see if it was straight up and straight across, eventually I got it right, Hallelujah!!! I exclaimed, so I then got back to playing with the screws again, this time being very careful not to unloosen them too much, anyway after about another half an hour of moving screws in and out, the reticule had shifted round again and was no longer straight up and straight across, instead it was at an angle again, ARRRRRGHHHHHH!!! I exclaimed!!!! Then I thought, maybe it is OK for it to move round, so my FIRST question is, is it OK for the reticule to rotate within the polar scope whilst adjusting the screws? OK, now onto the next hellish problem, how to get the darn thing to align. No matter what I did I couldn't work out how to get the reticule to align. I kept rotating the RA on the mount 180˚ each time but it was different at 0˚ and 180˚ every time I did anything, so after a long time of blood sweat and tears I gave up and decided I was going to sell the mount and throw my future Astrophotography hobby in the bin. Unfortunately I don't give up that easily so I thought I would come to you for help. What can I do?? Is it Ok for the reticule to rotate whilst adjusting the screws? How can I get it to align, any advise? I hope someone can help!

[Tinker1947]

If its your intention to use the 200P skyliner you will have problems getting a DSLR to focus properly there is not normally enough inward travel, the cure is to move the Primary Mirror up the tube (not to sure how far) maybe  a couple of inches, as for the Polar Scope i can't help i have never used mine....you will also require a Coma Corrector when using a Newt for imagine....

[hobsey]

I have no tips besides, keep at it.

It took me of about 3 months of attempts to align it, I was well and truely loosing the will to live by the end.

Good luck.

[bendiddley]

If its your intention to use the 200P skyliner you will have problems getting a DSLR to focus properly there is not normally enough inward travel, the cure is to move the Primary Mirror up the tube (not to sure how far) maybe  a couple of inches, as for the Polar Scope i can't help i have never used mine....you will also require a Coma Corrector when using a Newt for imagine....

No, I think I should amend my signature, I'm not going to use the 200p, as said I am just going to use a camera and lens on it.

[Owmuchonomy]

Polar scope alignment is about aligning it with the axis of the mount. I'm not familiar with your mount but I wouldn't have thought the cross hairs and orientation of them were not that important. You align a polar scope like you would align the finder scope with your main telescope. So you need to train it on a distant object, rotate the mount and make sure the centre of the polar scope remains stationary by adjusting its orientation. I guess if you have dived into adjustment that it was out of alignment in the first place? To be honest I've never touched mine because for imaging I use the polar alignment routine on the Synscan handset followed by drift alignment. Polar scope polar alignment is insufficient for all but the shortest exposure shots.

[bendiddley]

Polar scope alignment is about aligning it with the axis of the mount. I'm not familiar with your mount but I wouldn't have thought the cross hairs and orientation of them were not that important. You align a polar scope like you would align the finder scope with your main telescope. So you need to train it on a distant object, rotate the mount and make sure the centre of the polar scope remains stationary by adjusting its orientation. I guess if you have dived into adjustment that it was out of alignment in the first place? To be honest I've never touched mine because for imaging I use the polar alignment routine on the Synscan handset followed by drift alignment. Polar scope polar alignment is insufficient for all but the shortest exposure shots.

I have trained it on a distant object and I am rotating the mount it 180˚ each time I adjust to check the cross hair remain centred on the object. It was out of alignment in the first place as i tested it first, otherwise I wouldn't have tried adjusting it.

[Uplooker]

Hi Ben,

1. Take the polar scope out of the mount.

2. Hold it vertically, unscrew the eyepiece part to expose the reticule.

3. Loosen off the three off reticule adjustment screws.

4. Ensure that the reticule is seated properly in its housing.

5. Tighten the 3 off adjustment screws so that they are just holding the reticule in place.

6. Screw the eyepiece element back on. Refit polar scope to mount.

7. Centre the cross hairs on a distant object.

8. Rotate the mount in RA through 180 deg. You will most likely find that the crosshairs are no longer centered over the object.

9. To adjust the recticule you need to loosen one of the screws before tightening the opposing screw. When I say loosen, I mean by a 1/4or a 1/5th of a turn. Also when adjusting you only want to move the centre of the crosshairs half the distance to the target. This is very important.

10. Rotate the mount through 180 deg. Again, you need to loosen one of the screws before tightening the opposing screw. Make sure that you only move the centre of the crosshairs half the distance to the target.

11. Repeat until the centre of the crosshairs do not move off the target when the mount is rotated through 180 deg. You may not get this absolutely perfect, but is possible to get it so there is very, very little movement.

Once you have completed this you then need to put the "circle" that polaris will fit into in the correct position. Do this by following the instructions on Page 14 of the HEQ5/ NEQ6 manual.

If you are still struggling PM me.

Ian

[bruno]

very clear instructions nice one uplooker

[bendiddley]

Thanks Ian. Sorry realised I probably should have just messaged you in the first place. I've done all those steps but what I haven't done is turn the screws as lightly as you are suggesting, I have undone them a lot, so I will try by just 1/4 or 1/5 and see what happens. Do you know, should the cross hairs be totally vertical/horizontal before you start adjusting the screws or does it not matter?

[michaelmorris]

There is an excellent video on youtube about both modifying your polarscope to make it MUCH easier to align and a neat alignment daytime method.  Search for 'astronomyshed polarscope reticle youtube' and you should get to the video.  (youtube is blocked on this work computer so I can't send the exact link).  If you want some of the screws for modifying the polarscope PM me, I think I might have some spare ones I can send you.

[Uplooker]

Do you know, should the cross hairs be totally vertical/horizontal before you start adjusting the screws or does it not matter?

It does not matter one jot. After you have aligned the reticule to the optical axis you then orientate the alignment circle (the one polar fits into) relative to the setting circles. As I say, that part is refered to on page 14 of theHEQ5 / NEQ6 Manual. The instructions are very similar if not identical to the  EQ3. If you prefer have a look at the EQ3 manual here: http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/product_manuals.html

I cannot stress enough how small a turn of the adjustment screws should be made. Prob best to make a smaller turn than 1/4 or 1/5 - go for an 1/8th or 1/10 of a turn. As you get closer to alignment the adjustments will absolutley minuscule. Almost the fact of tightening your grip on the Allen key will be sufficient.

Good luck

Ian

[bendiddley]

It does not matter one jot. After you have aligned the reticule to the optical axis you then orientate the alignment circle (the one polar fits into) relative to the setting circles. As I say, that part is refered to on page 14 of theHEQ5 / NEQ6 Manual. The instructions are very similar if not identical to the  EQ3. If you prefer have a look at the EQ3 manual here: http://www.opticalvision.co.uk/product_manuals.html

I cannot stress enough how small a turn of the adjustment screws should be made. Prob best to make a smaller turn than 1/4 or 1/5 - go for an 1/8th or 1/10 of a turn. As you get closer to alignment the adjustments will absolutley minuscule. Almost the fact of tightening your grip on the Allen key will be sufficient.

Good luck

Ian

Cheers Ian

[bendiddley]

There is an excellent video on youtube about both modifying your polarscope to make it MUCH easier to align and a neat alignment daytime method.  Search for 'astronomyshed polarscope reticle youtube' and you should get to the video.  (youtube is blocked on this work computer so I can't send the exact link).  If you want some of the screws for modifying the polarscope PM me, I think I might have some spare ones I can send you.

Cheers Michael, I'll look that up.

[bendiddley]

There is an excellent video on youtube about both modifying your polarscope to make it MUCH easier to align and a neat alignment daytime method.  Search for 'astronomyshed polarscope reticle youtube' and you should get to the video.  (youtube is blocked on this work computer so I can't send the exact link).  If you want some of the screws for modifying the polarscope PM me, I think I might have some spare ones I can send you.

I just watched the video and have taken his advise and used some thumb screws which I took off the old polar scope thing that i won't need to use, hopefully that will help. HIs tips about lining up the lines with a TV arial could help me too so I'll try that as well. I'm going to have another go at this tomorrow morning before work. Thanks Michael and also thanks to everyone else so far for your tips/advise. Cheers Ben

[bendiddley]

HI guys. Back again. Ok I'm pretty much there, but it is a fraction out, when I say a fraction it is so small that even if I just slightly nano-tighten the screws, it makes a big difference. I've had it almost bang on several times, but each time I think, if I just tweak it one more time it might get it bang on but then it ends up further off again. It feels like the fraction that the screws need to turn if almost too small for human hands to actually achieve. So what I want to know is, exactly how bang on does it need to be, can it be a tiny, tiny, tiny fraction out?

[Alien 13]

If you are using the polarscope as the primary method of alignment (as i do) then it needs to be as accurate as you can make it, as stated the actual position it ends up in makes no difference provided it stays central when rotated on a target like a TV ariel.

I did at one time mod it using thumbscrews but ended up going back to the original ones because they kept going loose (think it was handling issues when using the mount).

Alan

[pyrasanth]

It must be like hell on earth to use a polar-scope- I can barely use a right angled finder. I probably would have asked for a full telescope refund if I had to endure the hell the poster went through- I'm so glad for the equipment I have!

[bendiddley]

It must be like hell on earth to use a polar-scope- I can barely use a right angled finder. I probably would have asked for a full telescope refund if I had to endure the hell the poster went through- I'm so glad for the equipment I have!

Was bordering on hell but then I discovered thumb screws which has helped loads, however I found out shortly after from others that thumb screws come loose, so I have found another solution which I am hoping will help with using that pesky alan key and grub screws. I will post my solution if it works, fingers crossed, actually its probably best that fingers aren't crossed for this, might make it a tad more difficult lol!

[Astrosurf]

I like this thread as my reticule is rotated to the left a fraction and I was going to ask about it! I'm glad you've got yours sorted.

For polar alignment I used to use the setting circles from Astrobaby's tutorial but don't now (useful for reticule alignment though: http://www.astro-baby.com/HEQ5/HEQ5-1.htm).  I now use Polarfinder on my laptop and place Polaris on the outer circle as displayed on the app. I ignore the little circle. here:

http://myastroimages.com/Polar_FinderScope_by_Jason_Dale/

There are also phone apps. I've just downloaded PolarAlign by George Varros but I've not yet used it.

Good luck!

Alexxx

[todd8137]

I have not really hot nothing to add but i almost went grey over night trying to,figure this out I got there in the end

Pat

[hobsey]

This is one thing I'm not looking forward to doing when the Star Adventurer arrives.

I'm just hoping it won't be another 3 months of attempts to get it aligned.

[Tonys]

It's like most things with stargazing, I find. Persistence and patience are essential and usually ( but not always) pay off. I hasten to add all my equipment is of the manual variety.

[rockinrome]

I used this You Tube video which is spot on. Got my reticle 100% perfect using this method.

[Vega]

I feel you're pain, I had the same issue with my old eq3-2. To be fair, I wouldn't loose to much sleep on fine tuning it. You'll get close to the maximum possible exposure if it's near enough and a decent polar alignment procedure is used. Dare I mention guiding is the magic solution to these woes.