Dual Lodestars

[HiloDon]

Hi All,

Last night I had a fun night with my two Lodestars. The X2 mono was in my Meade 8" SCT @ F6.3 and the X2C was in my Barska 80mm ed Triplet @ F7. Here are some captures from the evening:

Here are the color. I forgot to check the box to add the annotation. I think they were all with a 3x15s sum stack exposure. The mono were also sum stacked, not median as indicated.

Thanks for looking.

Don

[RobertI]

Awesome Don. Did you have both cameras capturing on the same PC at the same time or did you do one at a time?

Rob

[HiloDon]

Thanks, Rob,

I have a MacBook Pro that I use to run my SkySafari, Lodestar and the mount. I can't run two LL programs at the same time, so I dug out my wife's old MacBook, but it had too old of an OS. So, I was able to upgrade the OS and got it running yesterday. The screen is not as good, but it gets the job done. The wide field scope is helpful in finding things, too. Here's a picture of my setup:

[RobertI]

Very nice setup Don. The angle of your GEM made me laugh, makes me realise how much closer to the equator you are. Your weather looks awful by the way.

[HiloDon]

We're a bit under 20 degrees north and it's raining right now, which is why I'm not out in the observatory. We get some nice views to the south. The only place in the US that can see the Southern Cross.

Don

[Dom543]

Very interesting comparisons, Don!

What are the color objects? The color images appear more diffuse to me. I don't know, if this is due to the smaller aperture, the choice of object or difference between the cameras.

Now that you have your two camera, two computer setup we are looking forward to see more similar comparisons.

Thank you for doing and sharing these,

--Dom

[HiloDon]

Very interesting comparisons, Don!What are the color objects? The color images appear more diffuse to me. I don't know, if this is due to the smaller aperture, the choice of object or difference between the cameras.Now that you have your two camera, two computer setup we are looking forward to see more similar comparisons.Thank you for doing and sharing these,--Dom

Hi Dom,

In order are the Cat's Paw Nebula, the Sculptor Galaxy and M33 (Pinwheel Galaxy).

I find the clarity of the mono hard to beat. I'm not sure if there are other factors involved. I'm sure the Bayer mask in the color cam has something to do with it. Another thing can be the scope type. The color is with a refractor which has an IR shift in focus. I think that's what causes more star bloat. You could use an IR cut filter, but you then sacrifice some speed. I found that it didn't really have much effect on the bloat either. The images were taken at different times. Perhaps that and being in a different area of the sky had some effect as well. If Nytecam sees this, he may have some better insight into the differences. As far as the object is concerned, here is a side by side comparison of the Bubble that better demonstrates your point.

[Dom543]

Don,

Thank you! It is interesting to see the mono and colour images of the same object side by side.

I have to confess that I am inherently biased in favor of colour. Even for objects, where colour shouldn't matter. I just like that warm yellish-brownish colour of galaxies...

On the other hand a rather experienced person once told me that for the same sensor, the colour version's resolution (or sharpness) is halfway betwee the 1-1 and 2-2 binned monos'.

--Dom

[arkosg]

Great pics as usual, Don!

It sure seems that the monochrome captures more subtle detail... but somehow the colour makes objects "pop" more, 

even when they aren't hugely colourful objects (the traces of colour in M1 and M33 come to mind).  

I'd love to see how much colour Rob's Bowtie would show with the X2C... !

BTW, what spacing are you using with your 6.3 reducer and the Lodestar?

Cheers,

- Greg A

[nytecam]

Nice images Don :-) The Bubble in colour in 90s and mono 150s are in the reverse order to retain similar image data but as I've said elsewhere exposure is flexible ! Under LL the mono is supreme but I'll continue to use SX s/w for colour. Keep those images coming and great set-up:-)

[HiloDon]

Great pics as usual, Don!

It sure seems that the monochrome captures more subtle detail... but somehow the colour makes objects "pop" more, 

even when they aren't hugely colourful objects (the traces of colour in M1 and M33 come to mind).  

I'd love to see how much colour Rob's Bowtie would show with the X2C... !

BTW, what spacing are you using with your 6.3 reducer and the Lodestar?

Cheers,

- Greg A

Thanks, Greg.

I have a hard time deciding which I like best. I like to use the mono on things like the Hicksons where a little more detail makes a big difference. But, color does make some objects stand out.

For FR spacing I use this formula:

http://www.wilmslowastro.com/software/formulae.htm#FR

I have the Antares F6.3 FR which has a focal length of 220mm. The correct spacing should be 81mm. I still had the camera in the holder, so I checked it and it was 76mm. That would give a focal ratio of 6.5 with the F10 Meade 8". The Meade and Celestron 6.3 FR's have a 285mm focal length which require a larger spacing to get 6.3.

Don

[HiloDon]

Nice images Don :-) The Bubble in colour in 90s and mono 150s are in the reverse order to retain similar image data but as I've said elsewhere exposure is flexible ! Under LL the mono is supreme but I'll continue to use SX s/w for colour. Keep those images coming and great set-up:-)

Thanks, Nytecam,

I thought the same thing when I posted the images. I usually just keep stacking until it looks good. I really pushed the mono one the other night. I probably could have done the same with the color one. That was taken about ten days ago.

Don

[Paul81]

Great post Don, great to see some side by side comparisons and also an object I have never seen before (or heard of) the Flying Ghost Galaxy - really interesting object.

Maybe a thought for the future - I could make LL connect to both the mono and OSC camera and combine the data. The stacking algorithms are already up to the task. I am actually quite curious to try this out - perhaps once V0.11 is finished I can grab some files off you of mono and OSC images of the same target and I can experiment in a test harness? Could be interesting, as I agree with what other people say in this post - mono has more subtle detail but the colour really make objects stand out.

[RobertI]

Great post Don, great to see some side by side comparisons and also an object I have never seen before (or heard of) the Flying Ghost Galaxy - really interesting object.

Maybe a thought for the future - I could make LL connect to both the mono and OSC camera and combine the data. The stacking algorithms are already up to the task. I am actually quite curious to try this out - perhaps once V0.11 is finished I can grab some files off you of mono and OSC images of the same target and I can experiment in a test harness? Could be interesting, as I agree with what other people say in this post - mono has more subtle detail but the colour really make objects stand out.

That would be a very interesting upgrade to LL Live. I guess in theory the mono camera could capture Ha which could add another dimension??

[HiloDon]

Great post Don, great to see some side by side comparisons and also an object I have never seen before (or heard of) the Flying Ghost Galaxy - really interesting object.

Maybe a thought for the future - I could make LL connect to both the mono and OSC camera and combine the data. The stacking algorithms are already up to the task. I am actually quite curious to try this out - perhaps once V0.11 is finished I can grab some files off you of mono and OSC images of the same target and I can experiment in a test harness? Could be interesting, as I agree with what other people say in this post - mono has more subtle detail but the colour really make objects stand out.

Thanks, Paul. I found the Flying Ghost just by searching around in my SkySafari. I think I may have it upside down though. There's a slight wisp of a tail coming from it that shows the range capability of the Lodestar. PGC5195 is in the top center of the image as well.

Just let me know what you need on the Lodestar combo project. I can just switch the cameras once I have the object you want.

Don

[Paul81]

Rob, you are right a Ha filter on the mono could real aid the detail in the image for most targets.

Don, some test data at some point in the future would be of great help! Do you have the desktop sky safari? I have the iPhone version which is a great pocket guide for when outside but I keep toying with the idea of buying the desktop version as well for a greater depth of objects and to plan sessions better. I love the iPhone version, it is really feature rich and was very inexpensive!

On the subject of dual Lodestars, I have also tried to puzzle out what the effect would be of using a binoviewer and a Lodestar-M in one eye and Lodestar-C in the other. I wonder if that would even work? Maybe focus issues?

[HiloDon]

Paul,

I do have the desktop SkySafari Pro on my MacBook. I use it to find stuff and control my Atlas mount. I have the iOS version, too, and use it mostly for planning and verifying things on my iPad. I have a message into the new company, Simulation Curriculum, because they don't have the Hickson Compact Groups in their database, and some of them don't have an NGC designation. I haven't figured out a way to enter the coordinates and go to them. I can enter them but it only centers the screen on them. I then have to manually move the target until I get the right location. Not a big thing, but we'll see what they say. Maybe I'm just missing a way to do it. Other than that, I'm very happy with SkySafari.

The bino viewer idea sounds interesting. I never had an interest in bino viewers, but maybe I'll take a look at it now.

Don

[Martin Meredith]

I do have the desktop SkySafari Pro on my MacBook. I use it to find stuff and control my Atlas mount. I have the iOS version, too, and use it mostly for planning and verifying things on my iPad. I have a message into the new company, Simulation Curriculum, because they don't have the Hickson Compact Groups in their database, and some of them don't have an NGC designation. I haven't figured out a way to enter the coordinates and go to them. I can enter them but it only centers the screen on them. I then have to manually move the target until I get the right location. Not a big thing, but we'll see what they say. Maybe I'm just missing a way to do it. Other than that, I'm very happy with SkySafari.

Hi Don

I use SkySafari on my laptop too but I still control the mount with the hand control (just haven't got round to connecting it up to the laptop). Re the Hickson groups, it would be great to see them in SkySafari. The approach I use for the non-NGC/IC ones is to check the nearest SAO-designated star and enter that instead. Sure, I need to do a bit of star-hopping at times, but then I do anyway as my alignment is hardly ever good enough to centre the object of interest.

I've been focusing on the Hicksons in Pegasus, Pisces and Piscis Aust and Aquarius of late, capturing 88 and 90-100 inclusive. Just had a good peruse of your Hicksons gallery too -- nice work. It still amazes me that comparing inverted images of Lodestar captures with the inverted DSS images in Vogel's guide just how close we can get.

Martin

[HiloDon]

Hi Martin,

SkySafari got back to me and explained that if you click on the name of the object in the control box, it will change to center of the chart and you can the go to it. You can center the chart by imputing the coordinates in the coordinates pull down. Vogel's observing list of Hicksons has the J2000 coordinates for all the Hicksons, so I should be able to go to them with SkySafari. It may be a little off, because SkySafari uses present day coordinates, but I found a program to convert them. I like your star idea, too.

There's a lot written about the nature and makeup of the HCG's. It very interesting. It's really a thrill to find them and see them first hand on the computer screen. Thanks to the Lodestars and the LL s/w from Paul.

Don

[Martin Meredith]

Hi Don

You're right, it's tremendously exciting to see some of the interesting configurations pop up on the screen. Here's one of my favourites so far from last night, HCG 55 in Draco  in a single 30s exposure (the inverted inset is from Reiner Vogel's labelled DSS image). The brightest in this worm-like chain of galaxies is mag 15.4 and the faintest 17.1. To me it looks like a fragment of DNA floating in space.

Martin

[HiloDon]

Hi Martin,

I see that HCG55 is always visible in the northern sky. At our 20 degree latitude it almost drops below the horizon though. I'm looking forward to getting HCG50 which is the dimmest of all the Hicksons. It's near M97. I think I'll wait for a more reasonable hour to view it. Nice job on 55! Vogel's reference is really helpful.

Don

[nytecam]

Interesting results Martin for HGC 55 - all except 'c' [1 up from bottom of chain] have a RV ~15500k/s whilst 'c' seems a chance alignment with RV=37000k/s eg over twice as distant.  My crude light-travel-time distance values for 4gx = v/c = 15500/300000 = z0.052 = 700MLY whilst HGC 'c' = 37000/300000 = z0.123 = 1.6 BLY. 

This gx gp is also an Arps interactive group so maybe an Arp's famed redshift anomaly     RV values from Megastar s/w.

[Martin Meredith]

Interesting results Martin for HGC 55 - all except 'c' [1 up from bottom of chain] have a RV ~15500k/s whilst 'c' seems a chance alignment with RV=37000k/s eg over twice as distant.  My crude light-travel-time distance values for 4gx = v/c = 15500/300000 = z0.052 = 700MLY whilst HGC 'c' = 37000/300000 = z0.123 = 1.6 BLY. 

This gx gp is also an Arps interactive group so maybe an Arp's famed redshift anomaly     RV values from Megastar s/w.

Thanks for this. If so, then they are almost certainly the furthest photons that have landed on my sensor . (since cleaned)

Do you mean it is component 'e' that  has a different redshift (according to a very interesting article here)? The same article suggests that quite a few (40+) of the Hickson component galaxies are 'discordant'. By chance, the one in HCG55 has the largest velocity, although HCG50 isn't mentioned and I'm guessing this is the furthest of all. 

Don -- catching sight of HCG50 will be an interesting challenge for sure! 

Martin