How was the Universe created? How will it end or will it end?

[Astrodob]

Ive seen on a topic that I recently did how many ideas people had about these questions,so I decided to make a topic about this..

Now my question is How do u think the Universe was created?

How will it end?

And.. Will it end?

U can throw in some theories like the BB theory and the other ones and talk about them.

For instance If the universe came from the BB where did the BB come from?

Thanx,Astrodob

[D4N]

The short answer is that no one knows.

The moment of the 'big bang' is when the laws of physics as we understand them break down. We have no way of knowing what was before this point.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[VigdisVZ]

For no scientific reasons at all, I've developed a liking for brane-theory, but the LHC seems to indicate otherwise.

[ollypenrice]

As D4N says, hard science breaks down just before the beginning of what we can model. Since I don't much go for making things up (though billions of people love to do this) I accept that as being one of those things. I'm not God (though lots of people seem to be) so I simply don't know.

I have some hunches. 

1) I don't think we understand time and past-present-future may just be localized bunkum based on our restricted point of view. (Earth as the centre of the universe again.)

2) There are other dimensions to which, as yet, we have no access and, without them, understanding the totality is impossible.

Neither of these hunches is remotely original. Thay are being kicked about widely by people way smarter than me.

Olly

Edit; By the way, does the question, 'How was the Universe created?' make sense? I'm not sure that it does. If there was something to create it then was that something not part of the universe? Definition of terms!    Where is Qualia when you need him?

[Moonshane]

But Olly, based on what I have read, the Earth is the centre of the Universe

I once heard someone describe that in probability terms if you have 'nothing' then the next state is far more likely to be 'something' as there are almost infinite ways to change 'nothing' into 'something' but only one 'nothing'.  But this just brings us back again to the original question LOL.

[ollypenrice]

But Olly, based on what I have read, the Earth is the centre of the Universe

I once heard someone describe that in probability terms if you have 'nothing' then the next state is far more likely to be 'something' as there are almost infinite ways to change 'nothing' into 'something' but only one 'nothing'.  But this just brings us back again to the original question LOL.

Heh heh, this is news to me but I only just heard about heavier than air flying machines. (Sounds dodgy to me...)

Nothing doesn't exist in physics (John D Barrow, The Book of Nothing) so what can physics say about nothing's propensity to turn into something? Nothing!! 

Evenin' all!

Olly

[oldnut]

in my weird world the universe came about like a zit exploding against a bit of old tissue pressed against a face. there was nothing between the face and tissue till the zit forced its way into existence.  hence our universe is just a mess that just popped into existence from nowhere.

[Owmuchonomy]

But Olly, based on what I have read, the Earth is the centre of the Universe

I once heard someone describe that in probability terms if you have 'nothing' then the next state is far more likely to be 'something' as there are almost infinite ways to change 'nothing' into 'something' but only one 'nothing'.  But this just brings us back again to the original question LOL.

Sorry, I always resort to pictures :-)

[Ouroboros]

Doesn't the nothing of physics refer to empty space, which of course is not nothing at all? It's a seething mass of virtual particles coming briefly into existence before disappearing again. But if there were no space and no time, surely there really is nothing? So how can nothing become something? I have wondered whether even if the were nothing, does the potential for something exist? Indeed the potential for everything that is not impossible. But how that potential becomes realised I have no idea.

[VigdisVZ]

Is this a thread about philosophy or physics? 

[ronin]

You are going to have to start reading up on these things and finding out the latest theories.

Thats called "doing science".

One aspect to look at is "history"

When did the Andromeda galaxy become a galaxy?

Not when did it form but when did we realise that it was another distinct galaxy from our own.

It was not that long ago. To an extent that marked the start of "cosmology".

Charles Messier did not name it Andromeda, he called it M31, same for M33 etc. He had no idea what they were.

Basically we have been thinking about this for a very, very, very short amount of time.

Simplest idea we have is:
BB, energy from that condensed to matter (E=MC²), this collected under gravity to form the universe we see and don't see, something is accelerating the expansion of the universe (that's the odd bit presently, we call it dark energy, dark meaning we have no idea what it is), eventually all nuclear fusion will end, universe goes dark and over a fairly long period matter decays to ???

Hell you could have got this from several sources. Go learn.

Is this a thread about philosophy or physics? 

I was thinking it was about Olly being the centre of the universe. :eek: :eek:

[Ouroboros]

Is this a thread about philosophy or physics? 

Both possibly. Physics can't explain how the universe was created. It explains what happened from the moment of creation.

But anyway I think philosophy and physics are intimately bound up, as is the whole of science and mathematics - indeed all branches of rational learning. I don't agree with the Hawkins' view that philosophy is dead.

[Paul M]

I've always had a liking for a Steady State Universe. Yeah, I know that idea was put out to grass many years ago by the existence of the Cosmic Background Radiation.

Still, I like the concept. It seems a more likely state of affairs. No need for a beginning or and end. It's just so much more logical to me.

So what if they have to re-boot the laws physics to make it work

[Ouroboros]

Maybe it is kinda steady state. I heard it suggested that the universe exists permanently in a fixed state of past, present and future. It's only us who experience the passage of time.

[Cath]

We may never reach a state at which point we could handle the answers to such questions, who knows.

I think the best we can currently do with it all is to do whatever we can to try and find a little bit of peace and contentment within the tiniest speck of time we appear to have here.

[Alien 13]

I think the point about us being the center of the universe is valid if we are the only observers and without observation does time exist at all.

My pet theory is that the speed of light is not fixed or indeed constant it works for a vacuum if we could ever find out what one was but not necessarily for nothingness.

Alan

[Tiny Small]

I don't normally get drawn into these discussions but this one seems relatively tame (see what I did there?).

Firstly, I agree with Olly with regards to the terminolgy being used. 'Created' implies creation and intelligent design. This does not fit with anything that any science indicates.

Secondly, time is very specifically defined in science. It is nothing other than entropy. The arrow of time means that things change and can not change back to the previous state as it is unimaginably more likely that they will change to be something other than what they were. Without change there is no time. The base measurement of time is the second and is measured from the vibration of a cesium atom (a second being the amount of time it takes said atom to vibrate 9.193 x 10⁹ times (to 3dp)). Again, this leads to the conclusion that when when nuclear fusion ends and the universe starts to cool, all that will remain will be black dwarfs and black holes. It will eventually get to a state where there is not enough heat left to vibrate anythything. This is the point at which the heat death of the universe occurs and everything stops. The radioactive decay that occurs with the cooling and slowing of vibration in the atoms will litterally rip everything apart until there is no matter left in the universe at all and it will be forever unchanging. This is the point at which time stops, so yes, there will most certainly be an end to the universe. But not for a couple of years at least

As for origins... somewhere between the big bang and quantum loop gravity.

[Ouroboros]

I took the question "how was the universe created?" as meaning how did the universe come into existence? Which doesn't necessarily imply intelligent design.

As you say though, science doesn't do God. It is only concerned with natural phenomena. If the universe came into being by natural means it must have done so spontaneously by some process of self generation. Not a very insightful comment, but true surely?

I rather tend to the view that the Universe's existence is somehow inevitable for reasons we haven't yet grasped.

[nameunknown]

Of course the Earth is the center of the Universe - everywhere is the center because everything is rushing away from everything else.

Ok, you might say "well the earth goes round the Sun, and the Sun goes round the galaxy, and the galaxy is part of  the "local cluster"" - but on the distance scales involved it realy makes no odds - an engineer wouldn't quibble about a tolerance of 0.000..(more pale blue dots)...0001%.

If the theory about the Universe suffering from increasing expamsion due to "Dark Energy" is right ("feel the Dark Energy Princess Leela") and  "Cosmic Obesity" is a runaway process then even if it (everything)  has an "edge" (which it probably doesn't - people used to think the earth had one - it doesn't). Then the end of the Universe (in the sense of "end of the Street" - which might also be the beginning depending on whether you are the Postman or the MIlkman) can have no effective meaning because we can never reach it by travel through plain vanilla space - (assuming no FTL or exotic dimensional wanderings into places where things are a bit weird). So "end", if it is to be experienced, can only be a time-like end which comes "here".

My own view is that we will have the "Big Rip" rather than the "Big Crunch", where Dark Energy expansion happens on an increasingly "smaller" scale until the Kitchen red-shifts into the distance and no matter how hard you try, that final glass of scotch to toast the Universe "bye" remains frustraitingly out of reach. However (unless you read the Daily Mail), it won't happen soon.

OK - so being serious, there are several theories:

* The Universe was created by Trolls and is a complete fiction just to wind people up;

* Blair and Bush invented it to scare the population;

* It's an international conspiracy of telescope sellers and dinosaurs posing as the Royal Family to make money;

* UKIP say "THEM" will arrive from it and bring their Quasar/Black Hole/Bulgarians into our street;

* It just happened - why do we need a reason - hey Man pass me that before you Ganesh it all...

Bottom line is - haven't a clue.

P

[Mr Spock]

Man as a species is not knowledgeable enough, or intelligent enough, to determine where the universe came from. He has a limited view of the laws of physics, time etc., and so does not have the tools to progress further as yet.

In the mean time, he will continue to make up theories or beliefs to make him feel more comfortable with existence.

[Astrodob]

As D4N says, hard science breaks down just before the beginning of what we can model. Since I don't much go for making things up (though billions of people love to do this) I accept that as being one of those things. I'm not God (though lots of people seem to be) so I simply don't know.

I have some hunches. 

1) I don't think we understand time and past-present-future may just be localized bunkum based on our restricted point of view. (Earth as the centre of the universe again.)

2) There are other dimensions to which, as yet, we have no access and, without them, understanding the totality is impossible.

Neither of these hunches is remotely original. Thay are being kicked about widely by people way smarter than me.

Olly

Edit; By the way, does the question, 'How was the Universe created?' make sense? I'm not sure that it does. If there was something to create it then was that something not part of the universe? Definition of terms!    Where is Qualia when you need him?

Dude ure comment makes no sense . There had to be something to create and if there wasnt that something(possibly the Universe,Multi-verse no one knows ) to create.We wouldnt be here so it had to be created.

Note: That does not give any logic

All I was saying is How do u think the universe was created why would I ask Was the universe created was there anything created??? or anything else the point Im making I asked that question cause I wanted to  Einstein and most people get that...

[Astrodob]

Doesn't the nothing of physics refer to empty space, which of course is not nothing at all? It's a seething mass of virtual particles coming briefly into existence before disappearing again. But if there were no space and no time, surely there really is nothing? So how can nothing become something? I have wondered whether even if the were nothing, does the potential for something exist? Indeed the potential for everything that is not impossible. But how that potential becomes realised I have no idea.

Maybe another universe bashed into empty space which became our universe.

You can bash into Dark matter and dark energy or not???

[Astrodob]

Is this a thread about philosophy or physics? 

Both

[Astrodob]

Man as a species is not knowledgeable enough, or intelligent enough, to determine where the universe came from. He has a limited view of the laws of physics, time etc., and so does not have the tools to progress further as yet.

In the mean time, he will continue to make up theories or beliefs to make him feel more comfortable with existence.

Never say people cant do nothing about that...

You dont know how long we will last we can last for as long as the universe allows us or more likely destroy our selves,but u cant be sure

[Astrodob]

I have a few theories my top theory is that we could be a sort of biological hardware ( or a program or something) of course someone else had this idea its just my top most popular idea.

Imagine the universe and everything around u is really odd how its created we could be a biological hardware of a more superior race or something