Frustrated

[darthvader]

Had the scope out for the first time in a few weeks last night (apart from some sessions on the moon) to try and spot a few new messiers...

Really frustrating night had trouble locating anything - my problem is that although I can see with my naked eye where I want to look getting the scope lined up with that point is incredibly frustrating and I spend most of my time trying to locate the general area despite using the turn left at orion book guides.

I gave up in end feeling a right muppet

I seem to recall someone saying you can get some sort of laser guider to help find objects - anyone know what its called and how does it work and will it help me find things easier?

(Now seriously wishing I'd bought a GOTO scope!!!!)

Thanks

[John]

This is where a zero power finder such as the Telrad or Rigel Quikfinder comes into it's own. Once the one-off job of aligning the finder with the scope is done, you can put the illuminated finder reticules anywhere against the sky with the confidence that the scope is now pointing there. The optical finder and/or a low power eyepiece can then be used to do more detailed adjustment or to actually pick out the target object.

There are finder charts available with a good selection of target objects showing you where to put the Telrad / Rigel illuminated reticules in the sky to be sure that the target is then in the field of a low power eyepiece.

[greglloyd]

What are you using on your scope as a finder? Have you aligned the finder to the main scope using a bright star?

Also, are you using a low power eyepiece in the main scope to begin with?

Remember also that a straight through finder scope is inverted and back to front.

[darthvader]

Thanks John - the telrad finder sounds like what I heard someone mention before. Time to get the wallet out again !

Greg - I currently use a skywatcher raci finder (i did align it with a very distant object in daylight) so I am right in thinking the image is the right way round ?

Ps can you attach the telrad to the scope as well as my raci or is it one or the other?

[ronl]

I use a Rigel Quickfinder, it has helped me immensely, once you have aligned

it with your scope and finder scope, which is very easy, you just turn the small

knobs on the front, but the best part is you keep both eyes open when looking

through it, and it is very light and easy to install.

[Pete Presland]

Thanks John - the telrad finder sounds like what I heard someone mention before. Time to get the wallet out again !

Greg - I currently use a skywatcher raci finder (i did align it with a very distant object in daylight) so I am right in thinking the image is the right way round ?

Ps can you attach the telrad to the scope as well as my raci or is it one or the other?

no you can have both, the Telrad is normal stuck to the tube with some double sided tape, so does not use the bkt for your other viewfinder. i use both and the compliment each other very well.

[jetstream]

A RACI gives me trouble as well,need more time with it.Once good with one I imagine star hopping could be very accurate.

The answer for me has been the Rigel Quick finder,very easy to use mounted right up front,can use it seated even with the RACI mounted.I also use it on my 120mm refractor with a Scopestuff adapter,very handy.

[John]

Both the Telrad and Rigel use double sided tape to fix their bases to the tube then the finder goes onto that. The finders can be popped on and off quickly and easily for scope storage.

[nightfisher]

This is where a zero power finder such as the Telrad or Rigel Quikfinder comes into it's own. Once the one-off job of aligning the finder with the scope is done, you can put the illuminated finder reticules anywhere against the sky with the confidence that the scope is now pointing there. The optical finder and/or a low power eyepiece can then be used to do more detailed adjustment or to actually pick out the target object.

There are finder charts available with a good selection of target objects showing you where to put the Telrad / Rigel illuminated reticules in the sky to be sure that the target is then in the field of a low power eyepiece.

Good post, this really explains how best to go about this

[ronin]

Finders are or can be a problem.

Quite a few people do not get on with an RDF, you do not look at an RDF and it seems that is problematic.

Right angle finders are still a small scope and can show more stars then the eye sees and cause confusion.

Many find straight through finders difficult, although a friend has one on a dobsonian and simply lays his head on the OTA and lines things up immediatley.

Laser finders simply use a GLP in a cradle to sort of point the way. Hiccup may be that if the object is not visible to the eye then they do not collect light.

[greglloyd]

Hi, yes RACI is correct image. But as mentioned by others, the problem with a RACI is getting it to initially point at the right thing to start your star hopping. This is where a telrad comes in.

[AndyWB]

I went and got a Skywatcher RACI for my dob, and I find it pretty good. That said, it'd be a bit of a pain without the Rigel Quickfinder. I use it to get in the right area, then the RACI, then a low power eyepiece. Seems to work well, even on fairly long hops.

That said, I could live without the RACI, but not the Quickfinder; it's definitely the more useful one.

Also, lasers aren't ideal; they can annoy any imagers nearby, and around where I live will earn you a fairly rapid visit from the police, apparently. Given the number of planes, I'm not surprised. (Though if you're a music festival, you can shine whatever lights into the sky you want :/ )

[Andy 5312]

Im having same probs as darthvader. I use Telrad and RDF. Was trying to find Andromeda last night . Couldnt make out if i was in the correct part of the sky. Getting frustrated too...? It makes you feel daft. Located a small blob with 10x50 binos , located same small blob with scope (skywatcher130 ). Same small blob. If it was Andromeda surley it would have appeared different in scope. Using the 25mm wide angle ep.

[NotSoSuperNova]

I use a Telrad myself and get on great with it. I highly recommend one. I don't often have to use the finder scope with this setup as once it's in the middle of my Telrad, a low power EP always has it in view. 

[AndyWB]

Same small blob. If it was Andromeda surley it would have appeared different in scope. Using the 25mm wide angle ep.

Not necessarily; much depends on how dark your sky is. Under light pollution, in town, I found that M31 was just a fuzzy blob in both binoculars and my 5" scope. What is happening is that you're only seeing the very core of the galaxy.

My rules of thumb with my 5" scope are:

- Does it fill the field of view  from one side to the other with my lowest power eyepiece? If not, it's probably not dark enough. (And it's a fantastic sight when it does)

- Can I see M110 in the field of view? If not, it's definitely not dark enough.

Like most galaxies, it seems to respond to dark skies.

If you get your scope out somewhere dark, you'll realise just how huge the Andromeda Galaxy really is. 

[darthvader]

Thanks for all the excellent advice I have ordered a telrad from FLO....

[jtlandreneau]

I love the RDF. My observing starts with the RDF, then I move the to ST80 with a 32mm eyepiece, when I have centered on the object I start observing through the reflector. I can usually skip the ST80 step, but its a nice goto if I'm having trouble. Start with your low mag eyepieces, find your target, then start zooming in. I would suggest aligning everything you got on an easy bright star first, like Vega, first an foremost. If your finder is pointed no where close to your telescope it can be very frustrating!

Good luck!

[rodhull]

As others have said, a Rigel Quikfinder will sort you out no end. I have a 200P and debated between this and the Telrad, and plumped for the Quikfinder and have not looked back since. I have mind mounted right at the very front of the tube exactly like this pic I found of Moonshane's:  - it JUST fits ahead of the focuser on the 200P right between the focuser and finderscope. As soon as I started using it I was locating stuff VERY quickly - there's every need for both that and a finderscope though IMO to find some of the v. small objects...

[Jim Steele]

I'm debating getting a RACI for my Tal. Particularly frustrating locating things near the zenith when one needs to be a contortionist.

I thing a rigel might help too, but I can usually manage ok

[Moonshane]

I'd be lost without my Telrad. I'd also be lost without my RACI. I am also lost without the other one when I have one of them on the scope. In other words, I recommend and rely on both. The only time I don't have two finders on any of my scopes is when doing solar when I have none.

[craigfoot]

I'm just debating between the telrad and Rigel, many people rave about the telrad but I think the Rigel may sit better on my 130mm skywatcher explorer, especially as I'm considering a 6x30 or 9x50 raci too?? Is the Rigel just as good for star hopping as it has 1 less ring??

Don't want to overload the scope!

[John]

I use the Rigel with my 12" dobsonian and it's excellent. It has reticules (red circles !) that cover 2 degrees and half a degree against the sky. The Telrads additional one shows a 4 degree circle.

Neither would overload your scope as such but the Telrad might look somewhat bulky on the tube.

[jtlandreneau]

I'd imagine either would do... I have just a cheapo $15 RDF that came with my 130mm, I love it. The telrads I've seen a pretty cool, but seem pretty bulky. the rigel looks a bit awkward to me

[rodhull]

I went with the Rigel for its size and its reticule's height which I believe is slightly higher than that of the Telrad. I don't use it to star hop, that's what my finder's for. It simply allows you to get in the right place v. quickly, then if necessary fine tune with the finder.

[craigfoot]

I went with the Rigel for its size and its reticule's height which I believe is slightly higher than that of the Telrad. I don't use it to star hop, that's what my finder's for. It simply allows you to get in the right place v. quickly, then if necessary fine tune with the finder.

What size finder do you use?