Advice on starting video astronomy

[Druid]

So I've been getting very interested in video astronomy as a way of seeing more from my light polluted back garden.

I have a 4" f5.4 refractor and a C11 SCT. I'd be viewing on a retina Macbook.

Seems like most UK video astronomers go for the Starlight Express guidescops whereas most yanks go for the analog Mallincam.

What are the pros and cons, given the kit I have to work with?

My objective is to see more than visual can do in my light-polluted back garden, without getting into actual astrophotography.

[HiloDon]

I'm sure that someone more knowledgeable will chime in, but this Yank loves his Starlight Xpress Lodestars. I have both the mono X2 and the new color X2C. Together with the Lodestar Live s/w developed by Paul in the UK, they have opened up a whole new world of astronomy to me. I run everything with my MacBook Pro and an external 27" monitor. I also have a scb2000 analog video camera. The video cameras can be connected directly to a TV monitor for viewing. If you want to capture images, you will have to purchase a video capture device and control s/w. The Lodestars have just one wire that connects to the USB port. Lodestar Live s/w is available as a free download from Paul in both Mac or Windows versions. The Lodestars cost $599 in the US and the video cams run from $99 to over $1500 depending on features and options.

Regarding quality of image, I think you should view the galleries of users on SGL and CN to judge for yourself. Here is a link to my image gallery. You can see that I have various scopes including 100mm and 152mm refractors as well as an 8" SCT. I think you have a perfect setup for near real time viewing with your scopes and mount. You will probably want to get some focal reducers for the C11. I would suggest the F3.3 and F6.3.

http://stargazerslounge.com/gallery/member/36930-hilodon/

Hope this helps some. If you have any questions just post them here. Also take a look at Nytecam's site. He was the one who convinced me to go with Lodestar.

Don

[DoctorD]

Hi

People get great results with both the Lodestar and the Mallicam - the Mallicam is a video camera and can be used without a computer and appears to offer more automatic operation. 

The lodestar needs a computer and Paul81's Lodestar live offers real time stacking, however you have to adjust the picture controls manually to bring the best out of the image (no AGC function implemented yet, but it may be on Paul's roadmap).

I chose the Lodestar-C over the Mallicam as it gave me a lower cost step up from my SDC435 video camera than a similar Mallicam with the added benefit of USB connectivity allowing RAW capture of the image data for later processing using programs like Deep Sky Stacker (you have to have something to do during the cloudy nights!). The Mallicam's primary output is PAL or NTSC encoded video so will be affected by colour encoding artefacts, although I think that some of the Mallicams have a USB output.

Pleas bear in mind that I have not used a Mallicam - perhaps someone has used both and can give a side by side comparison?

Paul81 has been working on Lodestar Live for about a year and and this has made the lodestar a very interesting option for Video Astronomers, however Nytecam has been using a Lodestar with the standard Lodestar software and short exposures and has achieved some amazing results without any stacking.

I'm not sure if the Mallicam software (Miloslick?) is supported on OSx so you may be limited to what can be done in the camera or have to run a Windows VM. Lodestar Live will run on Windows or OSx - to be honest this was one of the deciding factors for me as I run a 2009 Macbook Pro.

As Don suggests a focal reducer for your C11 is highly recommended, otherwise you look all set to go.

Clear Skies

Paul

[nytecam]

Hi Druid - welcome to the forum.  Don and DocD have summed it up nicely and I'll forgive DocD for quoting the oft used Mallincam users dig "the Lodestar needs a computer" well blow my socks off !  That's ALL the additional hardware you need for the Lodestar [no monitors/ power source transformer/battery/ cabling/ remote controls] .... and how do we comunicate without one 

[HiloDon]

To answer DoctoD's question about Miloslick, it does offer a Mac version. The s/w controls both the video image and camera for most of the Mallicam models, but will only control the video image of non Mallincam NTSC/PAL based cameras. The program cost about $50 US.

Don

[Macavity]

Modern Astronomy still have a "limited number" of Watec 120N+ 

http://www.modernastronomy.com/camerasAstroVideo.html

Still "far too expensive" (for me!), but a *purchase* I have never regretted.

Just hope the bloomin' thing doesn't die on me... I'd like a spare frankly!

It is perhaps unfortunate that video astronomy is driven by other (home security)

markets. Worthwhile investing in larger, sensitive chips while the going is good?

On the brighter(?) side, if you just want a "video finder" or two (I did) I have had

genuine success with readily available B&W IR-sensitive (~0.003 lux) "Mini Cams".

http://www.cameras-cctv.com/mini-cam (Just one of many suppliers) 

The AGC (automatic gain control) is unrestrictive (as one might hope) on dark skies...

[Spacedout]

Hello Druid,

I have a Mallincam Xtreme and I believe there are many others in the UK who also own one so not just an American thing.  I cannot recommend it highly enough it really is a great little camera but it is not cheap!  That said I also have several other cctv analogue cameras that cost a lot less but still produce some great results.  For planets I normally use my SCB-2000 which I picked up for £40 new!  As for the Lodestar I could not say as I do not have one but I know they are very popular here for sure.  Whichever route you take it's all good and it's just a case of working out what works best for you really.  

I have attached below some video footage examples of the Xtreme and the SCB-2000:

This is the SCB-2000 on Jupiter run through Miloslick using the video smooth function which brings out a little more detail.

This one is the Xtreme on M13.  The Xtreme is plugged direct into my TV but I am controlling the camera via the PC.  You can also do this from the camera if you don't like to use the pc.  The video shows M13 at 3 different intregrations, 2 , 7 and then 14 seconds.  I work in alt az and rarely ever go more that 28 seconds and never stack (don't know how!)

This one is the Xtreme on M82 and shows the software in action and you will see me mess with colour and contrast until I'm happy and again no stacking.

Anyway I hope this info is of use and look forward to seeing how you get on.

Good luck

[Spacedout]

Sorry forgot the last link!

[AstroEd]

This Yank/Redneck uses both LodeStar (mono) AND Mallincam Extreme and find both equally fun and rewarding both have about the same size ccd chip so field of views are the same. While I must admit using the Lodestar as increased my desire for a dedicated CCD still image camera I will still use my Mallincam just as much. I have so much to learn and I know these cams can pull out more than my current skills allow but I look forward to the journey.

[shirva]

hi druid..video is very easy to get into and all the guys have given you good advice,you are fortunate to have nice scopes that will work well with video astronomy..video astronomy can be as cheap or as expensive as your buget allows..the Samsung scb 2000p can be picked up cheaply from ebay,i purchased one just over a week ago for £26.it's a fantastic camera and a very good place to start,remove the factory I/r filter and fit a nose cone or a fast cctv lens or a tv lens and a tripod and a cheap power supply 12v dc and you can then link this to a tv,,basic set up achieved for £100..saving captured images to a computer by adding a usb video grabber from ebay £6..free software to control the camera.and you are well and truly set up..if you have a tracking mount you are well on the way to great images via video..

everyone has there preferences to what camera is best ect,,,you get what you pay for like everything in life but great images can be achieved cheaply using video,if you feel this is the road you wish to travel then more cameras with different features can be bought,main contenders are mallincam,astrovideo systems and sgl fave lodestar with lodestar live,,,my opinion if you win the lottery get one of each lol..davy