Larger light grabbing binos wanted.

[Guest]

Hello.I currently have a set of Opticron 8 x 42 high resolution binoculars and the image they give is very sharp.The trouble is that I did once own Helios 15 x 70 and remember the much brighter images they gave.In the end I sold them as they were too heavy to hand hold.I have seen the Helios 10 x 60's, alot lighter and giving more light grasp.Perhaps even 10 x 50's .There is a set of Strathspey Marine 10 x 50's.Just wondered what other peoples experience s have been.I will keep the Opticrons in the car.

Thanks,

Martin.

[RCG]

I may get hooted down, but I think heavier generally means better construction, with prism in secure, adjustable cells, lenses well mounted, no flex hinges with good friction, and so on.

Light binoculars are great ... until the first time you bump them.

Maybe I am just an old grouch.

[fatwoul]

If you thought the 15x70s were heavy, then I don't feel too bad breaking the news that I just sold a nice pair of Helio 20x80s...for similar reasons!

[Nakedgun]

I cannot speak about the brand in question, but, do prefer 10x50s for hand-held binocular astronomy. My 16x70s are used on a parallelogram mount only.

[BinocularSky]

The Strathspey Marines 10x50 are effectively 10x41.5, so you will not get any brightness increase there. The United Optics BA8s (WO/Oberwerk Ultra/TS Marine/etc.) 10x50 are true 10x50s and are much brighter than the Strath Marine. However, if the Helios 15x70 you had before were the Stellar, the BA8 is about as heavy, but you may find it was the magnification, not the weight, that made the 15x70 difficult to hand-hold satisfactorily. A lot of us find that the inertia of a heavier binocular makes it steadier to hand-hold.

Realistically, though, the aperture and magnification advantage of a 10x50 as compared to a 8x42 is going to be largely offset by the steadiness with which you can hold it. To get a significant advantage, you are really going to need something that is mounted, which takes us back to the 15x70 (or bigger). For portability, a 15x70 is easily manageable on a monopod/trigger-grip ball-head combo.

[Steven_J]

Is there no 10 x 50 other than the BA8s that has a full 50mm aperture? And is there a viable middle option available, a 12 x 60 or so?

[Guest]

I know that Helios have a 10 x 60 at 1.34 Kgs.I wish that there was a shop that you could visit and try.

[BinocularSky]

Is there no 10 x 50 other than the BA8s that has a full 50mm aperture?

Yes, there are many. Even my ancient Frank Nipole 10x50 has a full 50mm aperture. The stopped down ones tend to be the Chinese budget ones from the last 15 years or so.

[Psychobilly]

Just popped the missing 5 in for you Steve 10x0's would be interesting...

I really enjoy the relaxed views form my 6.5x32's so easy to hold...

Peter...

[Demon Barber]

Why not try a compromise and go for a 8x56,i still have my original celestron ultima dx and often find myself picking them up in preference to a wide selection i have at my disposal!

Regards

Mike

[Psychobilly]

I have 8x56 Hawke Prostalk ED's , 8x42 Delta SL3's and 25x100's to choose from...

Peter...

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[trynda1701]

Yes, there are many. Even my ancient Frank Nipole 10x50 has a full 50mm aperture. The stopped down ones tend to be the Chinese budget ones from the last 15 years or so.

You know, Steve, it would be cool if you could list all the binoculars that are stopped down in your experience on the Binocular Sky site.

Mark

[Steven_J]

That list of all know stopped down bins would be fantastic. Especially any other known brands/distributors/production lines besides the BA1s that tend to be stopped down.

[szymon]

"What you can handhold" is also relative to your own size.  I'm six foot with big hands, and I can quite comfortably and acceptably hand-hold 15x70 celestrons.  My son, however, who is almost 12, was unable to hold them steady, which is why we went for a lighter 10x50 (Olympus DPS-1, which I believe aren't "stopped down" from what I've read, although I'm not sure how I'd check this myself!).

[Steven_J]

szymon, Steve has a really useful guide on measuring the actual aperture on his BinocularSky page here - http://binocularsky.com/binoc_aperture.php

[MahlerMoonMan]

How about just a list of all the true 50mm objective bins? Probably a smaller list?

Donaldo

[Guest]

By "Stopped down"Do you mean that you can see a disc with a hole behind the objective lens.I saw a hiddeous example last Saturday.The disc behind the 50mm objective was only about 25mm in diameter. :mad:

[Charic]

Grumpy Martian.......Hi, I used to own Helios Stellar 20x80's that came in a decent solid case, and I also remember just seeing Saturn with them, however, I don't remember them being very bright, maybe had a little more contrast between the dark sky and the target, and too narrow a view to take in Orion's belt and just too high powered to hand-hold for any length of time. I sold them on some Years ago whilst still maintaining my old Bresser 7x50's. I did not have the full interest or commitment into astronomy back then,  that I have now, and for some reasons, wish I still had them over my present Astro 15x70's, for their build quality. Apart from the Moon, I don't seem to see any planetary details with my present 15x70s.

I'm still hoping to visit and see the Strathspey Marine 10x50 having spoken with the retailer, but my intention for those are more of an all-rounder, due to the extra protection those binoculars offer. 

I'm loving my new Helios 8x40WA 8.2°fov from flo! but they also recommended Opticron's, so I know you have some sharp optics there. The Helios 8x40 was such a bargain, and a keeper for my collection. My 8x40's are a great companion to my Skyliner. The 15x70s were for quick grab and go, but due to the lack-less detail on Jupiter that they provide, they may only get used for daylight terrestrial observations in future.

I'm also being guided at present by exit pupil size regarding future purchases, and hope to get my eyes accurately measured this Month during a dilation test that I have to attend. So far I have measured 4mm+ but I think their slightly larger. That said, I seem to get a better results with the 8x40 over my 7x50 now, but better glass could be the deal there. 

[Guest]

Hello Charic.Nice interesting post.The largest binos I had were the Helios Steller 15 x 70.They gave nice bright views of star fiels.But were not good at hand holding.When I visit my family in South Wales my Opticron 8 x 40 give great views and comfortably hand held.I am realy toying with the idea of looking for a set of good quality 7 x 50.

Martin.

[Charic]

.......7x50 will give an exit pupil of 7.14mm,  fine if you can match that  with your own eyes, but as we naturally  grow older with age,  the eyes are less capable and will not  allow a dilation to 7mm unless your blessed, so now  your eyes will,  effectively,  reduce the aperture, where-as  you will get just as bright a view from say your  8x42s   with their 5.25 exit pupil, probably the reason their so sharp ( and not knowing your age) and  still slightly more magnification by a factor of One, and still be easy to hold without extra support.  Trying to match as best as possible your eye dilation to the exit pupil will allow the best possible transmission of light through the optical train to your retina.  I've had my 7x50s for Years, but these 8x40s seem so much better!  Is it just better optics, Is it because I can only use 5mm of exit pupil, as I age, or is it a combination of both.?  Whilst I have the telescope next to me, wide angle, low power is what I  enjoy at present.

[BinocularSky]

I am realy toying with the idea of looking for a set of good quality 7 x 50.

Martin, your profile says that you are 55 yrs old. That makes it unlikely (but not impossible) that your eye pupil opens to more than 6mm (see here for how to measure it). If we assume the mean pupil dilation for your age cohort, 5.77 mm, and you want a 7x binocular, the maximum aperture before your eye starts vignetting it is  about 40mm; for 8x it is 46mm. This would suggest that a 7x50 is not going to give you any significant advantage over your 8x40, and will have the disadvantage of most likely being heavier.

[Psychobilly]

This is one of the reasons I have gone for 8x42's to use Instead of my 8x56's and my 6.5x32's work so well...

Peter...

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[Guest]

Charic, I did have a Williams Optics 66mm SD Zenithstar refractor and was amazed that with a wide field 2 inch eyepiece i could comfortably hand hold it and it gave wide and very bright views.I am on the look outb to replace it.

The Opticron HR 8 x 42 are very good indeed.I take the point about pupil width.I guess that a good quality set of 10 x 50mm would be hard to beat in that case.

[Charic]

Williams Optics 66mm SD Zenithstar refractor on the bay auction site for £193 but factor in import duty and postage and your looking at just shy of £300 notes. My 200P 8" Skyliner from flo! would give you no change at £286 delivered, but not sure if this would suit your requirements. You certainly wont hand hold this beast ? But for the easiest set-up and use, a Dobsonian mounted Newtonian reflector is simple and a joy to use. They require collimation, like guitars need tuning, but once mastered, its a quick few seconds to check, and a few minutes if any adjustment is required. Best to try one first if thats possible. I know viewing the heavens with binoculars is a joy, but at the prices Im willing to pay, they cant really compete with the magnification of between 37x to over 250x magnification offered by my telescope. Ive never had the opportunity to try anything like 25x100 mounted binoculars and im sure they would give a little more detail on Jupiter than my 15x70s can offer. But for now, Im happy with my signature set-up.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

I do like to use my 15x70 BA8 bins hand-held (but the views on the P-mount are better). I have 20yr old Bresser 10x50 bins (made in Japan) which are OK, but not as sharp as the BA8. Easier to hold, for sure. I agree with one of the earlier posts that weight is not as much an issue as magnification. I compared Vixen ARK 20x80 bins to my 15x70s in Tuscany last year, and the 20x80s are 50g lighter yet a bit harder to hold (although I was surprised I could handle them quite well). My older 15x70 BA1s were harder to keep still due to lack of mass, I felt.