Imaging...........ST80...........Nebula ??!!

[halli]

Hi There

I bought a NEQ6 just in time for the summer light nights after using my Canon 1100D on a shaky cheap tripod taking some constellation images !

I have spent time playing around with EQMOD and practicing polar alignment  - I think I have got to a stage where it makes sense and I think at least I know what I am doing ( I think !).  

Firstly I bought a ST80 to practice Go To with and I now seem to have reasonable Go To control over the mount.

So to the first attempts at imaging using the ST80.........!  

The recent sunny weather as at least given access to some clear skies in light polluted Reading, although darkness arrives late on and week time night forays are impossible due to tiredness in the week !  Anyhow I eventually got the hang of focusing the 1100D using the Canon utility on my laptop using the blown up live view mode.   I pointed  the Go To to NGC7000 in Cygnus which was classified as a bright Nebula on Cartes du Ciel and slewed the ST80 to that spot.  I seemed to have achieved a reasonable 3 star alignment beforehand so I though I would have a fair chance of having the nebula in the FOV.  Couldnt spot the nebula in the live view but I guess that would have been optimistic!  

Thence followed about 10 x 2 minute shots.  I havent quite got the hang of DSS yet so took one of the RAW images and played around with it on the Canon supplied Digital Photo Professional software.  I attach the result below - not sure what it is and what I did but plenty of stars at least together with a faint pink hue (which is probably noise!)  But hey could it be the trace of some distant nebulosity ! I suppose a  2min exposure is unlikely to provide much detail of a nebula.  

I think the tracking of the mount looks ok - but would appreciate any comments -good,bad or ugly !

Thanks very much

  

[oldpink]

you will really need to stack the images or use something like Photoshop to set the histogram correctly
looks like you have good data you just need to retrieve it

use DSS add the image files and select all then stack the images
there are a few tutorials on youtube about using DSS

[halli]

Thanks for your comment Oldpink. Yes I really need to get into image processing now ! I'm pleased you feel I have good data anyhow as I have spent most of my time at the image capture end of the learning curve. Just felt like pushing the result out there even in a partially processed state to see if the mechanical part of the capture seems OK.

Thanks again.

[oldpink]

I took your Jpeg and ran a few processes on it and got this
there is a lot of noise but I think thats from when you used the canon software

as you can see there is a lot of detail you can bring out with a bit of manipulation

[halli]

Thanks again for your time Oldpink.  

Its a good demonstration of how processing can bring out much more detail !  It also helps me in confirming the image capture part was reasonably successful.

This is an area where I need to invest in some software and also educate myself - I guess its the next important stage in producing viable images.  

I also need to persevere with DSS - I had stacked the images I took but find the output disappointing - the resultant image seems to be very narrow !  

Anyhow thanks for your input and I now look forward to my next imaging session and the potential results I can obtain !  Cheers

[Thalestris24]

Thanks again for your time Oldpink.  

Its a good demonstration of how processing can bring out much more detail !  It also helps me in confirming the image capture part was reasonably successful.

This is an area where I need to invest in some software and also educate myself - I guess its the next important stage in producing viable images.  

I also need to persevere with DSS - I had stacked the images I took but find the output disappointing - the resultant image seems to be very narrow !  

Anyhow thanks for your input and I now look forward to my next imaging session and the potential results I can obtain !  Cheers

Hi

Narrow image output in dss is a common problem! You need the latest version v3.3.4, I think.

[halli]

Thanks for the suggestion Proto Star, I have just downloaded v3.3.4 and am now using it to re process my frames.  

It certainly seems to be taking a lot longer to register images and is seeing a lot more stars. I was led to believe that it takes a while to process but this never seemed to happen with the version I used previously !   I have a feeling it wasn't working properly for some reason.

 Anyhow fingers crossed that my output will improve.  

It still needs another hour plus to complete - i will let you know how I get on.

[halli]

Hi again

I have now completed the reprocessing using DSS v3.3.4 and the improvement on my previous efforts with DSS  is truly remarkable.  I am quite excited at this !  

There was obviously something seriously wrong with my previous version - the narrowness has disappeared and a lot more stars have appeared !  I have mucked about with some of the RGB and other settings to produce the attached DSS output- now Im sure that I have captured a nebula of sorts !  Not sure what the problem was as the settings I used are the same - perhaps it was a compatibility issue with the 1100D.  Anyhow I always wondered why the stacking time was so short and thought it was down to poor quality of data I was presenting it with !  Now a significant barrier has been removed to further progress.     So thanks so much for your advice re the versions. 

I guess the use of photoshop may further enhance this - I need to get a copy  - what version would people recommend?   Would you normally do any adjustment in DSS or take the stacked output as is and do all of it in Photoshop ?

Thanks very much  for your help so far  - now I feel confident that I can capture good data and at least get a good stacked output ready for processing which is the next stage to focus on.  

Cheers

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               
 

[halli]

PS forgot to add the stacking includes 9x 2 min lights with 5 darks and 5 offsetts

[oldpink]

looks as if you are making progress
personally I only use DSS to stack and then a quick play about with the RGB to see what I have but don't save the changes
I then use Pixinsight to open the auto save from DSS to get an unedited version of the stack and work from there
you can do the same with Photoshop but its not geared up for astro work so harder to use thats why I went for Pixinsight

though I also tried Nebulosity and a few others but found Pix worked best for me so went with that
 

I also use PS CS6 but thats not cheap and only to fine tune the processing in Pixinsight and output at 16 bit to make the images useful

as I normally do all the processing at 32bit tiff which isn't upload friendly as a format

[halli]

Thanks for your response !  - I will certainly try Pixinsight straight from the DSS output and also research other options,  I think there is also a package called GIMP as well  - I guess its best to try a few and see what works best  for you as an individual

cheers !

[happy-kat]

GIMP is free :-)

[wuthton]

GIMP is free :-)

GIMP doesn't have DBE.

[ollypenrice]

GIMP doesn't have DBE.

DBE is the single most powerful and useful routine in the history of image processing.

Olly

[happy-kat]

Off to google to see what DBE actually means

Double Balloon Enteroscopy maybe not ;-)

[Thalestris24]

Off to google to see what DBE actually means

Double Balloon Enteroscopy maybe not ;-)

DBE = dynamic background extraction

[halli]

What package has DBE ?

I have downloaded a trial copy of Photoshop but it unfortunately stops working after a few minutes just after I've managed to load an image into it !

It appears as if the world of image processing is a black art ! It would be nice just to have a high level description of the process as well as mucking about with a piece of software like a headless chicken to try and demistify the art. I would imagine that there is a basic definition of the approach which is common to most packages?

Thanks for all the input

[Thalestris24]

Hi

Pixinsight has DBE

Louise

[wuthton]

What package has DBE ?

I have downloaded a trial copy of Photoshop but it unfortunately stops working after a few minutes just after I've managed to load an image into it !

It appears as if the world of image processing is a black art ! It would be nice just to have a high level description of the process as well as mucking about with a piece of software like a headless chicken to try and demistify the art. I would imagine that there is a basic definition of the approach which is common to most packages?

Thanks for all the input

PixInsight with Harry's tutorials (harrysastroshed.com) are you friends for image processing.

The learning curve is steep but it's well worth preserving.

Deep Sky Stacker and Pixinsight are the bare minimum processing that will give you good results in my opinion.

Many use Photoshop but it's comparatively expensive.

GIMP just doesn't have the required features for Astrophotography processing.

[wuthton]

I forgot about Startools.

Startools, Startools.... Startools. I love what they are trying to accomplish with Startools, automating image processing and making it quicker and easier for the user.

BUT, I just can't get a satisfactory final image. It always ends up looking over-processed. I really have tried, several times.

[TiTanecd]

Nice pic in OP, better than my very first. Few more and tips from these guys and it will progress nicely

I forgot about Startools.

Startools, Startools.... Startools. I love what they are trying to accomplish with Startools, automating image processing and making it quicker and easier for the user.

BUT, I just can't get a satisfactory final image. It always ends up looking over-processed. I really have tried, several times.

I just got the demo of StarTools after this post, is it again good then if you can't get the image you are looking for. I want to get into AP, but on a "sub minute exposure" level for this year, before spending loads. A tool like this sounds really great for beginners? Is it worth it.

[halli]

Hi All 

Thanks for all the further information.  I will definitely download a trial version of Pixinsight and watch Harry's videos as suggested.  I think that should take me to a good starting point now I have got a copy of DSS that works with my Canon 1100D !  

I took the opportunity because of the recent good weather to do some more imaging of NGC7000 - this time I just used the camera with a Tamron Adaptall  80-210mm f3.8 telephoto lens that I got for £14 on ebay which is an old solid metal bodied lens with the camera mounted on top of the NEQ6.

 I took 10 x 210s lights, 10 dark and 10 ofsett frames dumped them into DSS mucked about  with the RGB  levels and finished it off in some Canon softwware.  

On reading about NGC7000 I discovered it was called the North America nebula and also the Pelican nebula was close by and I  found some pictures of it so I knew the shape I was looking for in the resultant image.  It was difficult at first to find the nebula shape as the nebula was rotated 90 degrees from the normal North South orientation of North America on the map at first.     However it suddenly popped out as I was adjusting 'things' in DSS !  This was an exciting moment !

I attach the result below where I think the outline of NGC7000 can be clearly seen and also the co-located Pelican nebula down in the south eastern corner !   

I still dont know what I did or why I was doing it but at last the nebula I tried to capture with the ST80 at the start of this thread had suddenly appeared using the camera and 210mm lens.

This was mostly due to the information I learnt  from you good people earlier in the thread which enabled me to move forward with renewed vigour once I had got DSS up and running properly so thanks again !  I would have been stuck at first base without your help !

Cheers

Ian

[happy-kat]

A wow moment getting that great image for sure.

Could I ask how heavy is your lens please?

I have the tamron 85-210 f4.5 so not quite as fast (c1973) but never feel brave enough to have it unsupported on the 1100d.

[halli]

Hi - thanks for your comments happy-kat.

The lens weighs around 660g  which does feel quite heavy when compared with the modern plastic lenses !

[happy-kat]

Pretty similar, 665g here but the images are rather nice from it so you give me confidence to perhaps try more with mine

Look forward to seeing your next one.