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Imaging the veil nebula


neil groves

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So I went out last night to image the veil nebula, I spent some time during the afternoon studying Stellarium and a detailed star atlas so I knew where to look for it, I scanned the sky in the area with my scope and found nothing, I am pretty sure I had the correct star in center FOV ( 52 Cygni ) so I took a 30 sec sub at ISO 1600 and STILL nothing, surely if I was in the right area, I should be seeing SOMETHING right?, I mean how long an exposure do I need to be able to see enough to compose the view? I have heard it is visible telescopically so I would have thought that a 30 sec sub would have been enough, does anyone else have experience with this object?

oh the eyepiece I used was an Orion Q70 wide view 32mm, about 28X in my scope.

Neil.

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I've been imaging the same area unfortunately even with 60 & 90 sec subs I can just see the nebula if I blow the histogram way over the top
and that is with a modded Cannon
think you really need at least 3 - 5 min subs to get any real detail from the veil

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The only experience I have is that I've just come inside from trying to find it with both a UHC and an OIII filter and saw absolutely nothing... Zilch!!

I'm guessing my skies just aren't dark enough..

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this is a mix of 60 & 90 sec subs with darks & Bias files (about 40 minutes worth of data)
but as you can see lots of noise as I had to stretch it out way beyond anything useful to get the veil to show

post-34443-0-91153500-1406386551_thumb.j

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It is not easy to see unless you have a dark site. At a dark site it is possible in a 70mm scope. Some say 8x42 bins as well but I can't see it in those.  If you have any LP I reckon you're done for and it isn't quick to appear on the camera even with fast scopes, a dark site and CCD. That bright star does make finding it easy, though.

Olly

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28x in a 70 degree eyepiece should just about get the veil in, so seeing it in the eyepiece will heavily depend on light pollution and dark skies. it is very faint.

What is the camera?

The Veil will be a lot of Ha and if an unmodified DSLR then they tend to cut 70-75% of the Ha out, so on a sensor what you get is 25% of something very faint it is difficult to see at 100%.

If it is modded, or ccd, then how sure are you of 52 Cygnus? 52 Cyg does sort of sit over one bit of the veil, however if 52 Cyg was central then the other veil sections would have been over to one side or even out of view.

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I was actually going to be happy just to get the area of veil along side the 52 Cygni, that is my fav bit, I think I will just put one evening aside and concentrate soley on that one object, i'll find 52 Cygni in the FOV and hit it with an hour of 30 sec subs and see what results I get.

Neil.

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When working in Northern Iraq desert many years ago - absolutely in the middle of nowhere with ink black skies -  I thought I could see the Veil with the naked eye.  I was never 100% sure because your eyes/brain can trick you to thinking you can see things that aren't real (i.e same as waves in Loch Ness are the monster etc)  but i reckon I saw it.  It is a huge object, extremely faint and tenuous object but the skies there are spectacular.  I am 100% definitely certain I have seen the NA nebula with the naked eye, from the same site.  I could never see the California Nebula naked eye.

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I think I mentioned in one of your previous threads, when "looking" for an object, up your iso to max and even use 60 sec subs if need be. it doesn't matter what it looks like. you're only finding an object. once found adjust your settings. try for 60 sec subs if possible.

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When working in Northern Iraq desert many years ago - absolutely in the middle of nowhere with ink black skies -  I thought I could see the Veil with the naked eye.  I was never 100% sure because your eyes/brain can trick you to thinking you can see things that aren't real (i.e same as waves in Loch Ness are the monster etc)  but i reckon I saw it.  It is a huge object, extremely faint and tenuous object but the skies there are spectacular.  I am 100% definitely certain I have seen the NA nebula with the naked eye, from the same site.  I could never see the California Nebula naked eye.

There is a town in the central area of my birth country that is known as the astronomy centre of the land, once in a while  the authorities turn all the lights off to allow people to observe in total darkness. I have heard that it has become fashionable for young people of the area to throw star parties there after a wedding . I guess folks there can see a lot more of the heavens that we ever will with our naked eyes over here.

A.G

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Just started to process my Veil neb image but wanted to let people know that I had to expose for 1 full minute before I could see any nebulosity at all, and then I saw just the faintest wisp of gas enabling me to be sure I had 52 Cygni in the FOV.

Neil.

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Just started to process my Veil neb image but wanted to let people know that I had to expose for 1 full minute before I could see any nebulosity at all, and then I saw just the faintest wisp of gas enabling me to be sure I had 52 Cygni in the FOV.

Neil.

I am sure that it will turn out fine, good luck Neil.

A.G

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This is what I got from 5 x 30 minutes at ISO400 (unmodded 500D).  This was with a half full moon so would expect better results if fully dark.  I really had to push this one hard in the processing to get any red out of it though:

Western Veil (The Witch's Broom) - Unmodded DSLR Quickie

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I tried around 52 cygni and found it very challenging, doesn't help that the star is fairly bright, so opted for the brightest section of the veil...as posted here. Modified 350D canon camera and 6" scope. 4 x 5 min expo at 400 iso..if memory serves..........

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How certain are you that is the Veil Neb Davy?

Neil.

Hi Neil,

That is NGC6992 or the eastern Veil, You have the Western Veil. The whole complex is very large and beautiful in particular I like the Pickering Triangle. This the widefield image of the Cygnus Loop complex with most of the interesting bits, but not all them, taken with my QHY8 CCD and a WO Megrez 72 FD DDG @ F4.8 and 0.8X FF/FR. Just to give you an idea of how faint it is, the image is a stack of 8X900s subs.

A.G

post-28808-0-72998000-1406829288_thumb.j

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Yeah its def a segment of the veil.........lensman is right about its NGC designation. Its the brightest part of the veil, but not all of the segment will fit in my field of view. When you look at Lensmans pic, its the right section of the image, and top part.

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When working in Northern Iraq desert many years ago - absolutely in the middle of nowhere with ink black skies -  I thought I could see the Veil with the naked eye.  I was never 100% sure because your eyes/brain can trick you to thinking you can see things that aren't real (i.e same as waves in Loch Ness are the monster etc)  but i reckon I saw it.  It is a huge object, extremely faint and tenuous object but the skies there are spectacular.  I am 100% definitely certain I have seen the NA nebula with the naked eye, from the same site.  I could never see the California Nebula naked eye.

I find it nearly impossible in binoculars from my dark site. I doubt that the Veil is ever naked eye. However, the NAN certainly is, no problem, once you have sussed out what it is.

Olly

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It's all down to the skies. I have no chance visually here, although the 12" may do it once it starts getting properly dark.

I managed it in a TV85 from Radcliffe on Trent a little while ago. The Milky Way was visible and I used a Lumicon UHC filter. East and west parts and hints of Pickering's triangle. Not easy though.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I've been working on the veil for the past week, have 2.5 hours of useful data at 4min subs and the wisps are just beginning to show after stacking. I can't see it in my little 130mm telescope, it was more of a test of taking a picture knowing it's there but can't see it visually. I would hazard a guess that I will need at least another 2 hours of imaging with my telescope before I got a decent stack.

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