Televue 12mm T4 Nagler, Televue 13mm T6 Nagler and 13mm Ethos

[DRT]

I bought both of these EPs recently and want to compare them over a period of time on different objects and in different seeing conditions to hopefully give others some good info and also allow me to determine whether I need one, the other or both in my case.

My first attempt at comparing them was tonight, but it was a brief test on a night where I was principally testing my Nagler T4 22mm on various objects.

The opportunity to compare the Nag 12mm and Ethos 13mm came when I viewed Uranus for the first time this evening. Both gave a good clear view of the blue-green planetary disk bit the Ethos definitely gave better contrast, a darker background and, most tellingly, one extra moon.

It is early days but tonight was definitely 1-0 to Ethos.

But, I was viewing Uranus through the bright haze of an early morning brightening sky so the slightly lower magnification could have contributed to the difference.

I will chime in here each time I compare these EPs and will pick a suitable night to do a proper head to head when the seeing and sky make it worthwhile.

[alan potts]

Derek,

I have done the same review myself but it is always interesting to read what someone else sees from a different location. I think I found the Ethos that bit better but I always find with Televue eyepieces the differences are very small, as they should be when you consider the amount that you are paying out.

I hope you get a run of same like conditions, I have had a poor Spring/Summer so far, well at least by my standards. I have been doing a test between the 12mm Delos and Naglar, one I started over two months back. I normally spend a good deal of time doing these reviews and then take time out in between, I have not been able to do that this year at all really and even now the weather is not wonderful. I believe without checking last July I had 28 clear nights, so far this month I have had 9, it is not even going to be close this year.

Still good luck with the side by side and I look forward to seeing what you saw.

Alan.

[estwing]

Different location,scope and eyes!!....nice to see any other thoughts/opinion on astro gear to help others make the leap into the EP pond!

[Mike73]

Looking forward to the read Derek.

Now if only someone had a 12.5mm Docter to add to the mix aswell.....

[Dude_with_the_tube]

Looking forward to the read Derek.

Now if only someone had a 12.5mm Docter to add to the mix aswell.....

there is a massive thread in Cloudy Nights about Docter 12.5mm and as it seems,everyone is saying that this particular eye piece is better then 13mm Ethos.Would love to try one at some point,pricey and heavy tho,but would be interested to hear if someone in UK has it and is using it.Seems that Paul C should have one or even a pair,maybe he will chip in?

[John]

there is a massive thread in Cloudy Nights about Docter 12.5mm and as it seems,everyone is saying that this particular eye piece is better then 13mm Ethos.Would love to try one at some point,pricey and heavy tho,but would be interested to hear if someone in UK has it and is using it.Seems that Paul C should have one or even a pair,maybe he will chip in?

I started a thread on the Docter 12.5mm on Cloudynights recently. Since then lots of folks assume that I know where I can get one and I've been showered with PM's on the forum saying that they would happily buy it from me if I don't care to keep it !

I've decided not too go down that route as another friendly CN'er and Docter 12.5mm owner privately advised me that the actually "real life" differences between it and the 13mm Ethos are practically invisible unless you have a 20"+ scope and regularly observe under pristine desert skies. As neither applies to me I'm sticking with the Ethos 13 

Interesting report Derek 

I found my way to the Ethos range via the Pentax XW 10mm which I found was slightly better at showing faint planetary moons than it's Nagler equivilent. The Ethos seem to me to come the closest to delivering XW clarity and light scatter control with the ultra wide field which I'm still rather hooked on.

You do need to compare the same or very similar focal lengths under the same conditions and in the same scope to see these differences though, as Alan says.

They are all really excellent oculars   

[Dude_with_the_tube]

i agree it all boils down to our UK skies which are not really the best of the pop,but what we have,we have

I had Ethos and i cant say anything bad about it,i just found that i dont really need 100 degree views on high powers and i fell that i cant concentrate on anything when i have that "spacewalk" views,but for low powers 100 degrees are very nice indeed.other than that,it is no doubt a great eye piece.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Interesting read. I had a chance to compare Olly's 13mm Ethos with my 12T4. Conditions were such that it was really a draw: 1-0 for the Ethos in terms of FOV (no surprise there) but the 12T4 equalized when it came to eye relief. I had to get my glasses into contact with the Ethos, which was not a huge deal on the massive 20" F/4.1 dob, but on lighter scopes on lighter mounts I know for a fact this will cause image wobble. At one point I thought the Ethos did show a stellar nucleus to a galaxy I was viewing and the 12T4 didn't, but swapping the 12T4 back in did show the same nucleus. Transparency was not perfect, and seeing limited image sharpness more than the optical quality, so I could not judge the difference in that respect.

[DRT]

I haven't had an opportunity to review these side by side yet but have just added a Nagler T6 13mm to my collection so will compare the three together and report back. I have no intention of keeping all three, in fact I will probably end up with one, but I thought it would be good to see how the tiny little T6 compares with the big boys.

[Dude_with_the_tube]

out of all 3 Televue Ep`s there,Ethos will be the winner for overall sharpness,edge correction etc.not taking into account FOV difference

[DRT]

out of all 3 Televue Ep`s there,Ethos will be the winner for overall sharpness,edge correction etc.not taking into account FOV difference

I expect that to be the case, but part of my curiosity is to see whether or not the price difference can be justified.

These three were all purchased second hand at:

• Ethos 13mm - £315 (new = £479)
• Nagler T6 13mm - £175 (new = £242)
• Nagler T4 12mm - £150 (new=£279)

I think I paid resonable prices and it will be interesting to see what the £140-£165 has given me in the Ethos, apart from the extra 18 drgrees FOV.

The second hand prices above are each £5 less than I paid to account for postage and the new prices are from Telescope House at today's date.

[alan potts]

I will tell you one thing I remember Derek, I found the 13mm E easier to use than the Nagler T6, they are all very good eyepieces though with the 12mm being more user friendly for any glasses wearers. I do a test with my own reading glasses when I remember on reviews so as to help people that wear them, I don't know if it helps them because astigmatism is different.

Alan

[Dude_with_the_tube]

you have paid reasonable prices,as to your question can the 150quid difference between Ethos or nagler can be justified,thats a good one. optically, apart of larger field of view,difference will be very little.Ethos will be a tiny bit sharper and will go "deeper" for DSO,also Ethos will be better corrected on faster scope,but thats again fractional and debatable.To be perfectly honest,when i tested Ethos against my Meade 14mm UWA,i liked Meade more because it had much better eye relief,FOV was perfectly flat,sharp to the edge,again,Ethos showed exactly the same what Meade did and had exactly the same views what Meade gave me,it boiled down to my personal preferences and for the price of 1 Ethos i was able to get 3 Meade Eps,also i just didnt need 100 degree views on mid/high powers,thats why all my 100 deg Ep`s have gone,only keeping 20mm for low powers.

Again,this is my personal opinion and I am not a televue fan club member or any other lol,however,i do admit they do make  great eye pieces,i just like to find the same quality or better for less money

As for your case,you will have to test them head to head and find out yourself,obviously you being a TV fan,this will not result in any kind of loss,just determine,do you like 100 deg FOV or 82,In 100 deg range,there is nothing better then Ethos,ES will be the same but is out of question in your case.

Looking forward to your test results and clear skies.

[John]

I've had no regrets at all about the money I have invested in my Ethos eyepieces or any other Tele Vues for that matter. Others are close, sometimes very close but sometimes it's nice to have the class leader and a brand that has made a big contribution to the hobby rather than just piggy backing on the success of others.

But then, I am a Tele Vue fan club member, and Pentax too !

[Don Pensack]

When comparing the 13 T6 Nagler with the 13 Ethos, be sure to compare on targets you might normally expect to see colors in.

Some examples: Star clusters with red giants, bright nebulae, carbon stars, old globulars with lots of red giants,

Saturn's disc (and the brownish shadings there).

I did a very extensive comparison between the two a few years ago and found, other than field of view, that color rendition was one of the most notable differences.

Sharpness, not so much.

But try for this during nights of high transparency, not hazy or milky skies.

[DRT]

When comparing the 13 T6 Nagler with the 13 Ethos, be sure to compare on targets you might normally expect to see colors in.

Some examples: Star clusters with red giants, bright nebulae, carbon stars, old globulars with lots of red giants,

Saturn's disc (and the brownish shadings there).

I did a very extensive comparison between the two a few years ago and found, other than field of view, that color rendition was one of the most notable differences.

Sharpness, not so much.

But try for this during nights of high transparency, not hazy or milky skies.

Thanks, Don, that is great advice.

My plan is to compare the three from my light polluted back garden on a clear night and also compare them at a dark site on the same targets. My expecation is that they will all be much the same from the garden, but the dark site might separate them.

[michael.h.f.wilkinson]

Comparing EPs at this level requires good skies in any case. I could spot little difference between the Ethos 13mm and the 12T4 when I was in France, due to poor seeing

[John]

Comparing EPs at this level requires good skies in any case. I could spot little difference between the Ethos 13mm and the 12T4 when I was in France, due to poor seeing

Poor or even just average seeing is a great equalizer. When I'm comparing eyepieces I always wait to have a number of sessions with them before coming to any conclusions.

I worry a little when I see people judging an eyepiece on the basis of just a single session on a limited number of targets although I appreciate that sometimes it's just not practical to hang on to a piece of kit that more or less duplicates the role of another, especially if the proceeds from the sale of one will help fund the other ! 

[DRT]

if the proceeds from the sale of one will help fund the other ! 

One of these three is going to miraculously turn into an Explorer 150P-DS that will be accompanying me as a grab-n-go to Grenada in October

[DRT]

I had my first chance to give these three a fair run at one another this evening in my CPC1100.

The sky at home is as clear and as dark as it gets at this tme of year. The Milky Way is just visible if you think about it long enough and with no Moon the sky glow is mostly confined to the north with the huge light dome that is Sheffield.

Here goes...

M57 - The Ring Nebula

Tele Vue Ethos 13mm - The background sky was very dark giving good contrast across the entire FOV. At first the nebula was a grey/blue colour with a milky grey core but when I came back to it about 20 minutes later (after looking through the other EPs) it was a lovely petrol blue with a dark grey core. I think my eyes had properly adjusted by the time I came back. The view on this second showing was stunning.

Tele Vue Nagler T6 13mm - The contrast was not as good as with the Ethos but the same number of stars were visible within the equivalent FOV. The nebula was more grey than blue and the core relatively cloudy.

Tele Vue Nagler T4 12mm - This gave the best contrast of the three EP's. A very dark sky with a deep petrol blue ring and a dark core. The only distraction was the kidney-beaning, which is something I haven't noticed with this EP previously. Extending the eyeguard helps but it restricts the FOV so I don't normally do this with my T4s.

My order of preference on this target: 1. Ethos; 2. Nagler T4 12mm; 3. Nagler T6 13mm.

M92 - Globular Cluster

Tele Vue Ethos 13mm - Excellent contrast with hundreds of pin-point stars visible against the nebulous cloud of the cluster. Stunning. The background sky was very dark which brought the object out beautifully.

Tele Vue Nagler T6 13mm - The smaller FOV seemed to bring the object closer but the general contrast wasn't so sharp. In the core of the glob the nebulosity wasn't so evident which made the visible stars seem brighter and more distinguishable. This EP gave a lovely view but after looking through the Ethos I knew it wasn't showing me everything.

Tele Vue Nagler T4 12mm - Stunning contrast. Apart from the FOV there is nothing to draw between the image in the Ethos and this EP.

My order of preference on this target: 1=. Ethos & Nagler T4 12mm; 3. Nagler T6 13mm.

Overall I (predictably) prefered the Ethos, but the other two are still fantastic EPs and I was left with the impression that if I only had any one of the three without the others I would be extremely happy.

I am hoping to get to a dark site soon and will continue the review either then or on the next Moon whichever happens first...

[alan potts]

DRT, Thanks for the fine review of your little collection of Televues, my findings are very much the same having had all of them I am just in the midst of a  write on the 12mm Delos and Nagler T4 bothe 12mm. It may be worth a mention that the T4 comes with an eye placement device to help the correct eye position, I find the same it does kidney bean somewhat.

I made a poinnt of editing your list at the end as you put T6 12mm and not 13mm. Hope you don't mind.

Alan.

[DRT]

Thanks Alan.

Are you able to edit the title of the thread so that the T6 13mm is added to the list? It might help if people are searching for comparisons later.

[alan potts]

Title of thread change to reflect the 13mm T6  Nagler at request of the Original Poster, DRT.

Alan.

[DRT]

Thanks, Alan.

[russ.will]

I am just in the midst of a  write on the 12mm Delos and Nagler T4 bothe 12mm.

I will be very interested to read that, especially if you include your reading glasses.

Russell