The Veil Nebula with 80ED and new 0.6 reducer

[Christopher Davenport]

Hello

My 80ED telescope was suffering from a lot of bloated stars around the outer 1/3rd of my frames in a DSLR. 

So I order a new 0.6 flatterner reducer, which arrived yesterday in the post from Orion Optics in the UK.

Last night was amazingly clear at my home, at 2am I could make out the milky way. This does not happen often where I live in Sussex.

So it was a great night to test out the new kit, considering that it pushed my 80ED up to F4.5.

It is just as well as the temperature outside was 18C and my DSLR sensor was running at 28C.

This allowed me to image at ISO1250 for 120sec exposures. (I might try to go above 120sec once its starts to cool down again.)

So managed to get about 90 frames of which I had to throw away 13 due to the morning light washing out the image.

What do you guys think of my first attempt at a Nebula?  Any advice on how to get more out is welcome.

I am thinking of modding my camera, but can't pluck up the courage to open her up!

Would a Ha filter help with this image, with longer exposures?

For the technical minded here is a single full frame sub (25% size 80% Jpeg) taken through the reducer, with no processing (except compression and resize)

Thanks for looking.

[bobmoss]

You've managed to get some good detail there - well done!

[Leveye]

I think it's a great effort! The star color is perfect in my eyes. I do see a bit of trailing in your image. I'd guess that it was from alignment and balance issues. My canon is pretty sensitive so i usually don't go over ISO 800 when going for DSO's like this. Usually 3-5 minutes works perfect. Lastly you might want to try stretching this in Photoshop to reveal some more detail. It's in there. Again well done!

[oldpink]

been trying to capture it myself
my biggest problem has been the breeze recently causing shake
I'd look at your red channel think you can get some more out of it

[Astrosurf]

The Veil is very faint with an unmodded camera as it's an emission neb, so you need to pick up IR. So you've done a great job! There's a guy who mods cameras professionally but I can't remember his name. I'm sure someone will say soon.

[ollypenrice]

That's pretty good for the kit and the time. Using a mono CCD and RGB filters this nebula is still slow going. It starts to jump up and wave its arms in narrowband! Making your DSLR more red sensitive would help but you might then lack signal in blue and green to balance it again. This needs O111. However, most nebulae are less strong in O111 than this one so the increased Ha sensitivity would be a help much of the time.

Olly

HaO111 in monochrome. I wish my RGB data looked like that...

[Astrosurf]

Here he is! http://www.astronomiser.co.uk/eosmod.htm

[Leveye]

I would disagree that you absolutely need to image it in IR and/or with a modded camera. Work with what you have and you'd be surprised with how much you can get with an unmodded camera. Plus it's what our eyes would normally see so to me it's just more natural. That said yes it would really help in picking up much much more nebulosity with an object like this.I love wide-field IR of the entire nova remnant with both veils like Olly just posted. Can you imagine what it looked like in the night sky 7 thousand years ago right after it accrued? 

[Christopher Davenport]

I think it's a great effort! The star color is perfect in my eyes. I do see a bit of trailing in your image. I'd guess that it was from alignment and balance issues. My canon is pretty sensitive so i usually don't go over ISO 800 when going for DSO's like this. Usually 3-5 minutes works perfect. Lastly you might want to try stretching this in Photoshop to reveal some more detail. It's in there. Again well done!

Thanks for the compliment, I do try to keep the stars nautral, I try to isolate the neb and stretch it, but it made the image look nasty.

Please find my PNG file here, if you want to see if it can stretch further.

I am not sure how to isolate the nebula from the surroundings so that the heat noise and banding does not amplify.

Edit:  My dec was not great last night, due to a new method of Polar align with PHD2, still learning.

[Christopher Davenport]

Here he is! http://www.astronomiser.co.uk/eosmod.htm

Another guy I have found on-line is cheap astrophotography.

It is a real toss up between paying for it and doing it myself... 

I think I am going to wait a while, still toying with maybe getting a mono CCD.

[Christopher Davenport]

HaO111 in monochrome. I wish my RGB data looked like that...

Olly,

That is fantastic, I can just make out where my image fits in over yours.

I am sure that with a mono CCD I would get a lot more detail.

What do you think of using mono to get the LUM and HA and combing with DSLR for the RGB? 

That way I don't need to go all the way in Mono just yet?

[Astrosurf]

I didn't say it HAD to be imaged with a modded camera, just that it's fainter without. At least that's my experience. I do agree there's more red and less natural colours with modded.

[Astro_Gaz]

i took this last night settings were as follows if it helps?

Scope: Orion Optics VX6 with 1/10 PV upgraded optics

Guide Scope: Skywatcher ST80

Guide Cam: QHY 5 Mono

Mount: Skywatcher HQE5

Camera: Nikon D5100 Modded

Exposure: 16x5 Minute Subs, Darks, Bias & Flats 

Technical: 750mm f/5

Software: DSS, Pixinsight, PHD, Nebulosity 

Witches Broom NGC9660 by Gareth Harding, on Flickr

[peroni]

Good effort for your equipment. I love this target. It's mesmerising.

You've got a bit of the nebula on the bottom left of the picture. With a bit of re-framing you could get both in maybe.

Check out this post from last year. I got lots of great advice for processing the veil. Ofc when to stop the stretch and process is a personal choice 

[Christopher Davenport]

i took this last night settings were as follows if it helps?

Scope: Orion Optics VX6 with 1/10 PV upgraded optics

Guide Scope: Skywatcher ST80

Guide Cam: QHY 5 Mono

Mount: Skywatcher HQE5

Camera: Nikon D5100 Modded

Exposure: 16x5 Minute Subs, Darks, Bias & Flats

Technical: 750mm f/5

Software: DSS, Pixinsight, PHD, Nebulosity

This is very good, I really like it.

Yours are at double the aperture and double exposure.

How are you dealing with the heat at 5min sub's or do you live on top of a mountain?

[tich]

I also had a go at this for the first time back in June & I've been hoping for a clear night so I can have another go, I like what you've managed Chris.

I took this using an ED80 & Altair astro 0.8 reducer, ok my processing isn't great as I tend to overdo the stars & can't balance them out.

11- 5 minute guided subs stacked with 11 darks & 11 bias frames in DeepSkyStacker & finished off levels & curves in Photoshop CS5.

[StuartJPP]

I imaged this target last year with my Canon 500mm f/4 L IS lens which isn't a million miles away from your f/4.5. I used 18x 90 second lights at ISO800 on a modified Canon 1100D for a total of 27 minutes of data. This target certainly benefits from a modified camera that is all I can say although only the red/Ha will be more prominent.

I suspect that you may have more data in your subs that need teasing out.

Western Veil by StuartJPP, on Flickr

[ollypenrice]

Olly,

That is fantastic, I can just make out where my image fits in over yours.

I am sure that with a mono CCD I would get a lot more detail.

What do you think of using mono to get the LUM and HA and combing with DSLR for the RGB? 

That way I don't need to go all the way in Mono just yet?

This can be done and people do it, the big drawback being that few people manage to get much star colour from DSLRs. Presumably their lower well depth?

Olly

[Christopher Davenport]

I also had a go at this for the first time back in June & I've been hoping for a clear night so I can have another go, I like what you've managed Chris.

I took this using an ED80 & Altair astro 0.8 reducer, ok my processing isn't great as I tend to overdo the stars & can't balance them out.11- 5 minute guided subs stacked with 11 darks & 11 bias frames in DeepSkyStacker & finished off levels & curves in Photoshop CS5.

Well done on this you have a lot more red coming through than me. I will reprocess mine this weekend.

This target really likes a fast f ratio. See the other PIC on here at f4

[Christopher Davenport]

I imaged this target last year with my Canon 500mm f/4 L IS lens which isn't a million miles away from your f/4.5. I used 18x 90 second lights at ISO800 on a modified Canon 1100D for a total of 27 minutes of data. This target certainly benefits from a modified camera that is all I can say although only the red/Ha will be more prominent.

I suspect that you may have more data in your subs that need teasing out

Wow I really like this. That f4 lens is a beauty!

I am going to reprocess this on the weekend and see what else I can get out.

[Astro_Gaz]

This is very good, I really like it.

Yours are at double the aperture and double exposure.

How are you dealing with the heat at 5min sub's or do you live on top of a mountain?

lol i live in the middle of a town overlooking a 24 hour tescos, i use an astronomik cls filter for the LP but the heat as never been an issue for me if there ever is any it gets remove in my processing workflow in PI

[KyleStoke]

lol i live in the middle of a town overlooking a 24 hour tescos, i use an astronomik cls filter for the LP but the heat as never been an issue for me if there ever is any it gets remove in my processing workflow in PI

Which Tesco is causing you a problem, i feel i might get affected by the Meir Park one when i move

[ollypenrice]

Thanks for the compliment, I do try to keep the stars nautral, I try to isolate the neb and stretch it, but it made the image look nasty.

Please find my PNG file here, if you want to see if it can stretch further.

I am not sure how to isolate the nebula from the surroundings so that the heat noise and banding does not amplify.

Edit:  My dec was not great last night, due to a new method of Polar align with PHD2, still learning.

It is particularly hard to keep the stars down on this target because the background nebulosity is everywhere and you don't want to damage it. I find star masks do work but only to a point. If you stretch under them too hard you'll have problems. On galaxy images, where there is either DSO or there isn't, it is easy to do a separate 'stars only' stretch which will give you a good background and small field stars.

Do you use the 'pinned curve' technique? It's easy. Once you have a basic stretch, not too aggressive and not anywhere near the limit, measure your background sky values with the colour sampler eyedropper tool.

Personally I aim for about 23/23/23.  Mouse onto a bit of background and Alt Click to put a pin on the curve at this point. Put a second pin below that. Now stretch the curve above the pins, aiming to give the nebulosity the stretch it needs while straightening the curve above the nebulosity brightnesses so as not to lift the stars too much. This is about it for me. If there are better ways I'm listening! I don't doubt that there are.

Olly

[Christopher Davenport]

It is particularly hard to keep the stars down on this target because the background nebulosity is everywhere and you don't want to damage it. I find star masks do work but only to a point. If you stretch under them too hard you'll have problems. On galaxy images, where there is either DSO or there isn't, it is easy to do a separate 'stars only' stretch which will give you a good background and small field stars.

Do you use the 'pinned curve' technique? It's easy. Once you have a basic stretch, not too aggressive and not anywhere near the limit, measure your background sky values with the colour sampler eyedropper tool.

Personally I aim for about 23/23/23.  Mouse onto a bit of background and Alt Click to put a pin on the curve at this point. Put a second pin below that. Now stretch the curve above the pins, aiming to give the nebulosity the stretch it needs while straightening the curve above the nebulosity brightnesses so as not to lift the stars too much. This is about it for me. If there are better ways I'm listening! I don't doubt that there are.

Olly

Thanks Oli,

I do use the pinned curve, in all my stretches, the data just does not exist. (Must be due to the cut off from the cannon.)

I stretched further, but none look as nice as this one.

I have converted this image to grayscale and done a dramatic stretch on it and there does not seem to be anything else there.

[Christopher Davenport]

Okay, I have reprocessed the image by re stacking on average instead of cappa sigma.

Plus I have been far more aggressive on  the curves and boosted the red channel to the max.

(I know I have probably pushed this to far, as I prefer my first image, but it does show that their is no more red in their.)

I am going to have to Mod my camera at some stage and gather more data on this.