Struggling

[alan687]

Im finding it very difficult to locate objects in the night sky, stars there easy ive learned some constellations and can navigate around the sky quite well, but only what i would call local stars, when i try to find M31 or M33 i see nothing, i know where they are by locating there closest stars and can find the area they should be in but when i point my scope towards them there's nothing, i have been scanning the area for a few nights now but no luck,

telescope astromaster 130eq, 650mm FL, 20mm eyepiece

i have an old pair of bino's 16x50, 3.9 deg fov would they show up M33/M31.

It may be just bad viewing conditions but the sky seemed clear, what should i expect to see just through the scope or binos, i know it wont be anything like the 7 hour exposure photos am i right in thinking i should see the bright center and a dim glow around it, just the basic shape?

[Paul73]

Provided you are away from street lights, you should be able to see M31 clearly in the binos (you can see it with the naked eye if it is dark enough). Forget about M33 until you have got a few more DSO's under your belt. It is ultra low contrast.

Your assumption re what you will see of M31 is correct. Use the binoculars to find your starting star then use the scope and go from there.

It takes practice.

Paul

[Stevp]

Its still very light at night too, it will get easier the nearer we get to winter.

[mjpfc]

Your bins will easily show M31, have them steady on a wall or someting to take their weight.

A long as your stars are pin-sharp in the scope, a little patience should reward you with the obvious M31 and

the just a bright, but much smaller (though fuzzy, not stellar) M32.

Good luck

Mick

[ronin]

Buy a 30 or 32mm plossl to get a wider view.

I would half suspect you have seen M31 but not recognised it, in your scope with the 20mm you will see about half of it. Meaning M31 will look like a somewhat dim blob with a bit more fuzz around it.

These light nights are a mess for many things.

Don't know if you have one but a decent book is probably the best way of working out where things are.

Stellarium is fine to determine what is visable but I do not think it is relevant to working out how to locate many of the objects we want to observe. Too much in it.

[ScottS]

Dark skies make more difference to what you can see than anything else. If you can get to a nice dark site, that will really help.

Have a go at locating M13 in Hercules if you haven't done so already. That's a great object for practicing finding objects.

[cotterless45]

There are plenty globular clusters, open clusters and double stars to keep you busy if light polluted. This is good start

http://skymaps.com

Nick.

[Moonshane]

M31 will more than fill your 20mm eyepiece as this will give you about 1.5 degrees of sky and M31 can be up to 2.5 degrees across if you have good skies.

you will see it in your finder scope (do you have an optical finder and is it aligned?) and your bins. expect a fine misty appearance across the field of view with an obvious brighter fuzzy centre. you will also see M32 (like a fuzzy star) and possibly M110 (like a faint misty oval) in this same field.

once the skies get darker, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about and why you never saw it in the first place.

bins will help most initially.

[alan687]

thanks for all the advise folks, this is a wonderful community. i will be going out shortly with the bino's for a look.

moonshane- i thought the 20mm was too small for M31 just was not sure.

Does anyone have or use a checklist of DSO's that you could check off after you have observed it, then move on to the next item on the list, i think it would give you a good goal to work towards but i cant find a list like this

[Moonshane]

Use the sharp V of Cass

it points right at M31

You should see it now I think

[alan687]

unfortunately the fog has rolled in and i wont be seeing anything tonight hopefully tomorrow  

[AndyWB]

Does anyone have or use a checklist of DSO's that you could check off after you have observed it, then move on to the next item on the list, i think it would give you a good goal to work towards but i cant find a list like this

Well, the Messier Catalog is something of a classic starters list for DSOs - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Messier_objects

Sir Patrick Moore also added the Caldwell Catalog, though it's northern and southern hemisphere, so not all are visible from the UK - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caldwell_catalogue 

Also worth noting is the Herschel Catalog, but that's starting to get rather challenging...

Alternatively, check out something like skymaps.com - they have a monthly chart of some selected things to look at.

[glowingturnip]

'Turn Left at Orion' is a really good book for star-hopping.  Assumes no Goto, and gives you directions of how to get from the bright well-known stars to your target, and also gives you a good idea of what they'll look like in bins and in a couple of different focal-length scopes, with a score of how impressive they are.

[Astro Imp]

You should be able to see M31 in your bins., from my moderately light polluted garden on a good transparent night I can easily view this with my 8x42 bins. It shows as a bright centre surrounded by a faint grey haze.

For a check list of Messsier objects try this:- 

messierlist.xlsx

[alan687]

i seen m31   soo happy right now. found it no problem with the binoculars but there old and wouldn't focus right so only seen a grey blob but still seen it

[Skylook123]

M33 is pretty tough on the less experienced observer in a less than perfect sky. 

Scott and Nick have a wealth of wisdom in their comments.  Globs can really jump out, so can open clusters if the FOV matches their extent, and the range of double stars is huge.  Easy beginnings are Regulus while it is still available, Mizar/Alcor is very wide and lots of variety in the view (each of the bright white "stars" is an unsplittable double, so with that blue Ludwig's star on the side, seven stars where the eye sees one, with a little zit of a partner), and Polaris itself is a triple but the bright double A1/A2 are too tight to split.  But B is a nice wine colored partner. 

With my 10" SCT I like to hunt down small planetary nebulae as well because they contrast so well with the background.  Under city lights nearly as bright as day I've been able to get classics like Saturn Nebula, Ghost of Jupiter, and the Blinking Nebula.  But globulars, starting with M13, M4, and M22 at this time of year, are beautiful finds.   So are many open clusters in Cassiopeia; just pan around slowly.

Good luck; all it takes is patience and time.  They aren't going to wink out any time soon!

[alan687]

I have to thank everyone for all of your help, last night i found and tracked M31 for 2 hours and i couldn't be happier. seeing conditions were not great so a sketched what i saw, basically the center of M31 but every now and then i got a look at the outer edge.

[Astro Imp]

Well done Alan, you probably won't have nearly so much hassle finding it next time.