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The Quest for M4 - ongoing!


kerrylewis

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Spent a while last night fruitlessly trying to bag M4. Now appears to be the best time to see it but south is not good from my usual observing position, so I carted out my 'grab n go' 4" refractor to the front of the house. I found Antares and its flanking stars easily but despite my best efforts I could not find the alleged glob. My chart gives its magnitude as 5.4 (although I've seen it as quoted elsewhere as around 7) which should be possible despite the bad light pollution in that direction and the twilit skies. I will try again otherwise it seems that I will have to wait another year!  :huh:

Kerry 

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Kerry I was observing that area of the sky with my 20x80 binos the other night. I remembered your thread and decided to look for M4. I was able to get a pretty good view of M4 with the binos. So it must be down to sky conditions and perhaps my latitude being slightly lower than yours. However, I do have a very good east/west horizon the same sky conditions as Lucksall (SGL star party site) a few miles away.

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Hello Nick - yes I think I will have to. My son now lives near Eastbourne - a visit must be arranged.

And hello Mark - my sky is nowhere near that standard! Next time I will try the binos from a bit of flat roof that gives me a better view south but is a bit dodgy for scopes and tripods. Failing that it will need to be a local dark site - and then the seaside.

However, I am trying to see as many Messiers as possible from my home - currently up to 98 but those remaining few are gonna be tricky!

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Thanks Michael. I realised it must be dimmer than those others, but to be honest I was looking for anything that vaguely resembled something other than a star! But you are right, you have to get your expectations 'tuned in'. My other nemesis is M74 where the same thing applies - but wrong time of year for that one

Kerry

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I had a look for M4 a few nights ago in 10x50s Kerry but had no joy. Conditions have to be good though, with less dust/haze around. Saw it last summer but it is 'pale'.  A few degrees above and M80 is a much finer sight in a lovely star field though. Best of luck and should be better to view in a few more weeks with a bit more darkness around !

andrew

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It took me a while to see M4, living in the very light polluted West Midlands. The conditions had to be spot on. I've seen it since from dark more southerly locations where of course it was much easier.

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Kerry,

          even from down here the slightest haze in the sky can blot the thing out.

          I'ts pretty big and always quite dim right across with little central condensation to be seen visually.

I was out Tuesday eve with 8 inches of newt and a 20mm lens  and though M80 stuck out like an Emu in

a Puffin colony I could not get any glimpse of 4.  I have once, seen little NGC 6144 Near the glow of Antares

and still found no trace of M4.

All of a sudden it will be there, big and obvious and you will wonder how anyone could miss it. Just needs enough

Transparency, especially as it is so low.  Expect something nearly as big as M22 only pretty much the same brightness

all over.

If you are down at Eastboutne, a trip West to the Seven Sisters park will get you a dark sky at least.

Good Hunting

Mick

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I spotted it from a dark site in the brecon beacons but even there it was washed out due to being low down in light summer skies. Its a pretty decent size for an open cluster so hopefully you'll get good conditions and it'll reveal itself to you over the next week now that the moon is out of the way.

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I think M4 is rather lovely.  It's easy to find from here on a decent night (hard to miss, even), but I can quite believe you'd struggle to find it with almost any amount of light pollution and you need a pretty clear southern horizon.  As Nick says, a trip south is probably the best option.

James

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With the vagueries of the sky, I only just saw M80 las night, whilst M4 was shining at

me like a car headlamp (possibly slightly overdone there, description-wise, but it was quite bright)

The helix neb is similar, next month I will be fed up with not seeing it, and one night it will

slap me square in the cones.

Mick

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If you have Stellarium (its a free download for those that don't) fire it up and click on the Telrad Circles, centre M4 and this puts Antares at 21:00 and AI Niyat at 01:00 (roughly) on the middle circle, so if you have a Telrad that's it sorted it will be in the middle of your EP, if you don't have a Telrad FLO sell them..... :)

Stellarium

http://www.stellarium.org/en_GB/

Telrad

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/finders/telrad-finder-astronomy.html

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I've found M4 fairly easily, though its position low in the south is a bit of a challenge from where I observe usually. I haven't managed to make out much detail though. I need to spend more time, and patience, at the eyepiece.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Spent another hour or so last night in fruitiness M4 pursuit. Took my bins and 100 mm refractor to my bit of south-facing flat roof. Antares and it's surrounding stars were pretty clear but absolutely no sign of the motorway namesake!! I waited as the sky got darker but still nothing. It must be simply down to my sky quality in that direction which is not allowing what is obviously a fairly faint object to be seen against the background. I have never spent so long looking for one object - even a comet!

I think that I may have to give up unless we get some exceptional conditions but the LP is not going to change from my site.

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Kerry don't despair. From starting the Messier list it took me just under 4 years to view M70 that low Glob in Sagittarius. I remember the sky conditions that night was brilliant, all the way to the horizon, and I was able to see this Glob quite easily in a 4" Frac.

I have seen M4 many times from home but I failed last night with various scopes.

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Hello Mark - well if you failed last night too, that gives me some comfort. I will not give up, I'll keep trying during this period when it SHOULD be visible.

Although I have a theory that due to something hitherto beyond known physics, it has self destructed and quietly slipped into a black hole, and you and I are the joint discoverers of this.

Kerry

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Agreed. The conditions have got to be right. Transparency seems to have a disproportionally high effect at these high ambient light nights.

I popped out last night and could barely see the Veil nebula at 01:30 in a cloudless sky. 2 weeks ago it jumped through the eyepiece at me!!

Is this just me?

Paul

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Hello Mark - well if you failed last night too, that gives me some comfort. 

Me too, and I have seen it previously (fairly easily) from exactly the same location, at the same time of year and night. I think with it being so low, any haze in the atmosphere wipes it out.

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Kerry,

If you can get it a little later in July, there is usually less haze as well as the darker sky

(with the adden bonus that you don't have to stay up so late.

I'm with Kate Bush and Peter Gabriel on this one, Don't give up.

Mick

Oh, and stay clear of gibbous moon nights, a big moon will kill M4 dead.

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Dare I say it but maybe we need a good dose of rain to clean out the air :shocked:

Could be! We have heavy showers forecast for later followed by a clear(ish) night but, given Mick's comment, the moon may now scupper things. The quest continues........

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  • 2 weeks later...

Last night was very clear all the way to the horizon. I decided to use my newly acquired Vixen SG2.1x42 binos + my 20x80 Binos for a more detailed view. I concentrated on Scorpio and Sagittarius.

Because of the discussion on M4 I looked specifically for this DSO.

I am pleased to say that I was able to view it with the large binos. It helped to know its exact location plus its size. Yes it was faint and perhaps if I did not have previous observing knowledge I might have missed it but it was good to view it especially with the lighter sky and Moon rising.

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As other's have said, M4 has the lowest surface brightness of any of the Messier globulars. It is also quite low to the south, making it an even harder target. 

But on the other side, it is well resolved even in a small scope and on a dark night is easy to find.

I recommend you wait until you go to a place with a good southern horizon-then not only will you be able to find it, but it may become your favorite globular cluster because of it's richness.

Good luck!

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I find M22 hard from home and M4 is doable with decent conditions. not even tried yet as even M11 was quite faint the other night!

I'll be looking more frequently over the next few weeks. you will eventually get it and then never fail most likely

I have got M74 from home too with the 12" but it's almost not there. as with all things even slightly better conditions and skies will reveal a lot you cannot see at home.

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