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First eyepiece upgrade - what you wish you had done


YKSE

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The purpose of this discussion is for sharing experiences, and hopefully give beginners some help.

Most of us, if not all, have done some upgrades from stock EPs. Many of the more experienced members started centuries ago with quite different EPs available at that time. Let's make some basic assumptions:

a. The scopes are nowadays typical biginner's scope, such as 70mm to 120mm f5 to f11 refractors, 130mm to 200mm f5 to f7 reflectors with any mount and 90mm to 127mm Mak or SCT.

b. The eyepieces are the ones avaible on the market now, new or used.

Questions:

1. Where would you buy your eyepiece and why?

2. What is the first eyepiece you would have bought and why?

My answers are:

1. Buy from used market, e,g, http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?, whenever it's avaible there. It would have saved me nearly 100 quid if I had done that, and I've only upgrade 7 eyepieces and some filters.

2. Baader Mark III zoom, it should work well in my first scope SW 130P, and it works very well in PST, 80ED and SCT C8, very useful as single EP at alignment.

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After a lot of research and reading reviews the first eyepiece I bought was the Baader Hyperion Zoom MKlll with the 2.25 Barlow followed by the 38mm Panaview for wide field views. This in effect gave me a good range of magnifications for use in my ED 120 refractor.

I bought them new from FLO because as a beginner I was uncertain about buying on the second hand market.

If I was starting out again I would do exactly the same as these particular eyepieces turned out to be an excellent choice.

My advice would be to do your research and read all the reviews you can to see what is best suited to your particular telescope.

Avtar

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...... Many of the more experienced members started centuries ago with quite different EPs available at that time.....

I guess I fall into this category although centuries is a bit harsh - decades is true though and the market was much more limited and the prices much higher then :rolleyes2:

Based on today though:

- I'd certainly consider buying used eyepieces.

- I'd forgo wide or ultra wide fields of view for sharpness and contrast across a "regular" 50 degree field. I reckon the Baader Classic Orthos are optically amazingly good for their <£50 (new) purchase price so I'd make my first purchase from that range. 

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I guess I fall into this category although centuries is a bit harsh - decades is true though and the market was much more limited and the prices much higher then :rolleyes2:

Sorry, wasn't meant to be mean, just another mistake of mine.

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I am a newbie and I am quite happy with the path I chose for my first eyepiece upgrade:

- Baader Hyperion Zoom 8-24mm + 2.25x barlow.

Next up : Some Low power widefield eyepiece.

Then I will wait till 120°  fov is common and people go around saying "remember when 82 degrees was considered ultra-wide?

and upgrade the lot.

Rune

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Sorry, wasn't meant to be mean, just another mistake of mine.

Don't worry - I wasn't really offended in any way. My kids think I am centuries old anyway I reckon, after seeing my record collection ! 

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I bought a lot of eyepieces as I first did not know much about them, then got cheap ones used, and now I am trying to get a few cheap ones for my student telescopes.

What I would not do again: Get a wide range zoom eyepiece. Just too many issues, and the low mag should have a wider field anyway.

Exception are Astrozooms in the range of 3-7mm or so.

1. Used IF the seller has good reputation, expensive ones only from telescope dealers, low price eyepieces anywhere.

I did get a pretty crappy eyepiece used, luckily Teleskop-express helped me even though I got it second hand. Now THAT is customer care.

Such answers are difficult becuause depending on the telescope maximum magnification, exit pupil and such would vary greatly.

2.

Budget solution

Seben 30mm Plössl, 10mm Plössl and 2x achromatic barlow

(would have beaten my first telescope kit eyepieces easily, total cost under 40€/35£)

Budget mix

30-32mm Plössl or 24mm HR Planetary / BST explorer or similar

6mm UWA 66 degree plus film can zoom modification to use it as 3-4mm

And depending on the aperture ratio a 12mm erfle €22

(So 50-90€, that would have saved me a lot of trouble)

Good kit

2" Erfle,, depending on the aperture ratio 26-40mm (<f/5 - f/8...), For f/6+ the cheap 30mm80deg erfle

2mm exit pupil, so HR Planetary or UWA66 ~15mm

Astrozoom HR Planetary aprox. 7-3mm

(Combined still cheaper then a long focal length  82 Degree ES ;-))

Dream kit

Explore Scientific 82 or 100 Degree, at least 6mm exit pupil and 2mm exit pupil, later inbetweens

Astrozoom 7-3mm 82degree to get the best possible magnification depending on seeing and object

(Now this would easily cost more then most of my telescopes... combined )

:-)

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Well where I am and with the deals available I would buy new,on sale.

I would purchase a set of Baader Classic orthos and a widefield finder eyepiece,the ES 24mm 82 deg.The 18mm BCO is so good,it competes with much more expensive EP's.All of these are "keeper" eyepieces IMHO

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When I started out, all this internet stuff wasn't around (like 1978). I got two orthos (25mm and 5mm) and one symmetric 9mm (all 0.965"), all ordered from Polaris in the Netherlands. Much later (we are talking 1995) when I bought my C8 from Ganymedes in Amstelveen, also in the Netherlands, I got two extra Plossls ( Celestron 10mm and Vixen 36mm) apart from the very decent, Vixen-made Celectron 26mm Plossl that was the stock EP that came with the scope. I bought my first real upgrade from the same supplier: a Vixen LV 9mm, not so much for reasons of image quality (the 10mm Celestron was fine in that respect), but simply for reasons of eye relief. And what a relief it was to observe comfortably! An LV7 was bought fairly cheap later n Akibahara, on a trip to Japan (in 2001).

This set kept me happy for a long time, but after I got a TMB Paragon 40mm (in about 2010) to replace the 36mm Vixen Plossl (which had too much eye relief and not such a wide FOV), I was no longer content with the others, and the rest is history. One by one they were replaced. I do not have a fixed supplier, and buy loads second-hand, because that makes it a lot cheaper, and if you do not like an EP, you can sell it at very little loss.

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When i started I had a collection of cheap eyepieces that came with the 3 inch scope that was a Dixons make I have long forgotten, something beinging with "P' Prinze or the like, I moved onto a larger reflector which was made by me and the Maintence Dept at work. I then bought an orthoscopis from Fullerscopes, a business started by Didley Fuller who as just sadly passed away. These were like the cream at the time and Fullerscopes down in London was the Rolls Royce showrooms.

As John has said these was not a mass of choice then and the afore mentioned  was the only one I was aware of, even Sky and Telescope was very difficult to get hold of. I also had a couple of Ramsden eyepieces which were nothing special and another which had no markings but was half decent. 

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My first upgrade from the standard SkyWatcher 10 & 25mm Super MA's was a Meade 4000 6.4mm Plossl. I wanted more magnification and detail for planets. This turned out to be unusable due to short eyerelief and my need to wear glasses while observing. My tip is to remember that the observer is also part of the system. Think about your personal observing requirements/limitations and not just what telescope you have and what magnification you want.

If I could start over I would have bought an f/6 telescope rather than f/5 and upgraded to Baader Hyperions in 5, 8, 13, & 21mm in that order.

After that learning experience with the Meade, I did do the correct thing next. I went to a star party and looked through a whole bunch of eyepieces. I learned that eyerelief is critical for me and that I like super wide but NOT ultra wide fields. It also confirmed that (still being quite new to the hobby) that I would stick with the hobby long term and that good eyepieces are definitely worth the money, but you have to get the right ones for you. Just buying expensive eyepieces is no guarantee that they will be good for you.

My very next upgrade was an f/4.7 and a boxful of Pentax XW's and am very happy indeed. That Starparty experience and advice on this forum has saved me a packet on potential costly mistakes and incremental upgrades.

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Mine came with a couple of Meade plossl's that were not too bad.

I bought a couple of used eyepieces from whoever was selling and was close to me, so picked up a few more, but nothing costly and all were I think plossl's that whoever was clearing out.

At that time TV Plossl's were the upgrade of choice and that is what I did by getting any that appeared on the used side, so nothing great or costly even then. Actually heavily suspect they are worth more now then when I bought them.

Last sort of main purchase was the BST Explorers, they were Explorers then and £39 each, maybe £38.

Got those and that was basically it.

Have picked up an odd BST used in the last year to make a group of 3 for grab and go use.

Somewhere I do have a set of WO SWANS, but that is just 3.

Gave a bunch of 5 plossl's away, and there are the odd eyepiece or two rolling around somewhere. Couple of Antares W70's are I think hiding somewhere.

So that was my route to eyepiece happiness.

Happy with what I have done and have ended up with and really couldn't have done much else. Not bought much that is bad and not spent out on one expensive one to have it sat round doing not a lot.

After the TV plossl's and the BST's the cost of TV's jumped and I couldn't warrant the jump in cost for the use I make of them and what is likely an improvement but a small improvement.

To me the catch is the next improvement will be to something like ES 82's and I am not going to spend the money on them, especially as I tend to get a set rather then one or two, but even 4 of them would be a significant cost. All my BST's cost me about £280 - just bought the new 3.2mm - and I have read of people wanting 1 "significant" eyepiece for more then that, and I have to wonder why.

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I pretty much share John's viewpoint. Many beginners worry about not having a wide enough view of the sky and want a wider and wider apparent field as a result. I find very low power wide field views a little 'boring' from a light polluted site anyway (from where most of us observe I think) and now consider 1 degree of field a reasonable vista. Most objects fit into this well other than a handful of the larger common objects.

On this basis I'd generally recommend used TV plossls for pretty much everyone unless eye relief is an issue for the 15mm or lower focal lengths. If eye relief is an issue then there are other options such as used Radians or the Pentaxs.  Whilst they may seem expensive at first, eventually after losing money on cheaper options I appreciated that they were good value.

I am of the view that a shorter focal length scope is cheaper than a wider field eyepiece and rather than striving for wider field eyepieces I'd suggest a smaller scope as this can serve a number of purposes (solar/travel/camping etc).

I buy almost all of my gear used at the minute and have done for some time.

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I don't think I would have done much different. There again when I started last year I had this great forum to help me. :smiley:  I would probably have bought second hand from the word go had I known about it day one, but in the end I only bought my 8 and 15mm BST new as well as the Maxvisions, though the MVs seem like second hand bargains for the price considering the Meade equivalent cost. 

Ever since it has been second hand and it will stay that way from now on.  I am not one for the large wide views as top priority, in terms of given the choice having a well corrected FOV over a mushy wide one, I will spend on the former and try to get the best quality in that FOV range. That  being said I am not sure I'd just want to live with 50 degree plossl or 40 degee orthos throughout, as much as I like my BGO  and will end up with a couple more orthos I expect at some point. The well corrected 60 - 70 degrees of pentaxes and Radians seems very nice I think in terms of that extra bit of FOV and comfort and overall performance, especially the pentax XL/XWs of which I am a bit of a fan boy I must admit  :grin:

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One thing this thread has shown is the value of having a forum such as SGL to get rapid feedback on possible equipment choices prior to purchase :smiley:

Much better than waiting for a monthly astro magazine to appear which may or may not cover the items you are considering  :rolleyes2:

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One thing this thread has shown is the value of having a forum such as SGL to get rapid feedback on possible equipment choices prior to purchase :smiley:

Much better than waiting for a monthly astro magazine to appear which may or may not cover the items you are considering  :rolleyes2:

Thats definitely true in my case.

Take my latest purchase for example ( Astro Hutech 7mm Ortho) , that was all down to you John.

Come to think of it so were most of my other recent purchases.

Avtar

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I have got the baader classic ortho 6mm,10mm,18mm and the baader barlow 2.25. From flo for my 130p explorer (used twice so far due to crummy weather) because of the good reviews on here. Been cloudy ever since they arrived tho so fingers crossed for tonight.

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What I would not do again: Get a wide range zoom eyepiece. Just too many issues,

I fully agree with you about many cheap zooms, those zooms are more or less waste of money.

Dream kit

Explore Scientific 82 or 100 Degree, at least 6mm exit pupil and 2mm exit pupil, later inbetweens

Astrozoom 7-3mm 82degree to get the best possible magnification depending on seeing and object

(Now this would easily cost more then most of my telescopes... combined )

 There you are, Mark III zoom is optically just as good as these EPs( by the reviews I can understand, and my comparison between MV 68 deg which are comparable to ES 82 deg), and with more spectacle-friendly eye relief, more versatile and much cheaper than a set of  4 ES 82 degree, ES wins of course on extra field of view.

Even comparing with much more budget good EPs like BST, Mark III zoom replaces effectively 8/12/15/18 BST with less cost, same eye relief, virtually same FOV, but noticeable better optical performance.
This is a longer version why I would like to recommend Mark III zoom as first upgrade.
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Yes, that zoom is a lot better then the 50€ ones :-)

The Astrozoom is a affordable alternative though, either as cheap HR Planetary zoom or as UWA82.

I suppose it depends on budget. As always :-)

For 10, 12" f/5 or f/4.x, where something over 30mm is not really advisable, the 82 degree 24-30mm eyepieces are nice, at least for the overview eyepiece.

In-between high and low mag, I can live with a more narrow field of view.

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The only purchase I made that I really regretted early on was an 8mm TV plossl, which I disliked from the word go. Not that it was bad, but the eye relief was awful and not for me. I should have asked more questions about this. Still, I bought it from the US and sold it for about the same price. It really was unused though. My first ever upgrade EP was a 25mm TV plossl and I still have that. In fact, it now has a twin brother and get used regularly in my binos. My advice would be to source from the US if you live in Europe, especially if someone can bring EPs back for you. I have saved a fortune and all my EPs were brand new.

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  • 3 weeks later...

My upgrade path was Standard 10/25mm Plossls >> Celestron Omni >> Celestron X-Cel LX >> Baader Hyperion >> Televue. It has been one of the most expensive trips of my life :rolleyes:

The best purchase I made along that route was the Baader Mk III Zoom. It provided lots of flexibility while I sold other kit to (partly) fund the other upgrades and is great for aligning the scope by zooming out to find a target and then in to pinpoint it in the centre of the field. It is also a very good eyepiece for general observation and is particularly useful on the Moon.

My biggest mistake was buying too many EPs each time I decided to move up to a more expensive range. I also took too many steps and should have bitten the bullet sooner and went for something at the top of what I knew I could afford to buy. Lots of EPs have gone in and out of my case having seen little or no use because of the speed with which I decided to upgrade.

One thing I have been sensible about is I have almost always bought used EPs. This meant I was only losing small amounts of money each time I sold one on and in a few instances I have made a few quid on top to balance out the losses. Well, nearly.

There always risks attached to buying used stuff online but if you take sensible precautions like asking for photographs of the actual kit you are buying, communicate with the seller by email to help establish that they are like-minded souls and not crooks then you should be perfectly safe. Despite the annoying fees, I always like to use PayPal if possible when buying and selling as it means your bank account and credit card numbers aren't exchanged with anyone.

My advice would be to be more patient than I have been, buy second hand, buy the best your wallet will allow and buy only what you think you will use. Not everyone can get to or wants to go to a star party to try kit out and if that is you make sure you only buy things you know you can sell on for little or no loss if they don't suit you or your scope.

...and everyone should own a Baader Mk III Zoom :wink2:

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I just remembered that I ordered the 32mm and 40mm TV Plossls brand new last night from Telescope House after a bottle of very nice claret.

I should have written the above advice to myself a couple of days ago! :lol:

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I just remembered that I ordered the 32mm and 40mm TV Plossls brand new last night from Telescope House after a bottle of very nice claret.

I should have written the above advice to myself a couple of days ago! :lol:

Interesting choice. The 40mm does not show any more sky than the 32mm - is there another reason that you have chosen that as well ?

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