Upgrade time - NexStar 6SE or 127 SLT?

[Gissajob]

A couple of Christmases ago, I dipped my toes in the astro waters for the first time with a cheap and cheerful 4" Newtonian my wife bought from Jessops. Not a great scope, but it has helped me to realise this is a hobby I want to continue with, so it's time for an upgrade. I've decided I'm going to go for a GoTo, and I'd more or less decided to buy a Celestron Nexstar 6SE. But then a question occurred to me. The 6SE is just about £800. The Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT is less than half that price, as is the Skywatcher Skymax 127.

So, my question to you all is this - is the 6SE worth the extra money for the extra 1" (or 0.91" actually) of aperture? Is there something else about the scope that's worth that extra outlay?

I'll be using the new scope for moon, planets and the easier DSOs, and for just the general wow-look-at-that type of viewing.

Any help gratefully received.

Alan

[dobbie]

hi alan I had a celestron 6se and my brother had the skywatcher 127mak , we found the mak cooled down quicker , but optical wise we could not split them on a few dso the celestron 6se was a tad better but we had a few heated arguments over the scopes but in the end we both agreed the skywatcher 127 was better value , the difference is minimal , but others will give there views

[rowan46]

the mount on the 6se is a fair bit steadier than the slt. It surprises me on cooldown  i used to have a 5 and that cooled a lot quicker than the mak I guess that extra inch makes a difference. the extra inch is noticable for  visual but it is a lot of extra money.

What about this for just a bit less than a nexstar

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

[Northern Soul man]

Hi Alan, I've got the 127 Mak and find it to be a fantastic scope for its size, I've owned a load of different scopes and I must say that the 127 Mak really does punch above its weight, the inch difference in aperture is not really going to be noticeable - trust me - the only difference is going to be a slightly brighter image (really when I say slight  I mean negligeable at best!!!) - no real image size improvement, if you do but the Mak - just be careful with the tripod, the spreaders on the tripod are only made of plastic - I was a little heavy on opening up the tripod and broke one of the connectors which fixes the brace to the tripod.

Paul.

[Stu_]

+1 for the 127 mak, a great little scope.

[Gissajob]

Thanks everyone for the advice. As no-one has given me an outstanding reason to go with the 6SE, I think FLO will very shortly be getting an order for the 127 mak. With the money saved, I can look at some eyepiece upgrades once I've got used to the scope. Longer term, a mount upgrade might be a good idea, and then I can change the OTA if aperture fever sets in!

But lets not get ahead of ourselves...

[stevend]

The SLT 127 is my first 'proper' scope and it is serving me well. it takes up little room and is easy to transport as well.

Essential add-ons; sort out a power source for the goto, either AC adaptor and/or a jump starter, and make yourself a dew shield ( it is easy enough). Mine is about the same length as the OTA.

Later add-ons; the 9mm EP is poor, but the 25mm is acceptable so think about new EPs. I recommend the BST ones and use the 12mm, 15mm and 25mm the most. 8mm is good to have when conditions permit or for lunar. Based on my experience, I do not think it is worth getting the 5mm.

I think the SLT 127 is a long term keeper because if I were to decide to get another scope one day, whether a refractor or newtonian, then it will still have a use.

HTH

[GuillermoBarrancos]

I guess it really depends also on your budget.  These little maks and SCT´s are great little planetary scopes that will give you nice views on planets.

If your main interest is visual, I wouldn´t rule out an 8inch dobsonian as possible upgrade. An 8inch reflector is a very nice aperture that will pretty much open up the entire messier catalog for you to observe.

Planets are very seasonal bound and there are many months in the year that Mars, Jupiter and Saturn are not positioned well for observing and then with an 8inch dob you will have a whole host of other objects to observe.

Just something to take into consideration as well. Especially since a dobsonian (both manual and GoTo flextube) like the 200p has 1200mm focal length and will give very nice lunar and planetary views as well.

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/dobsonians/skywatcher-skyliner-200p-flextube-goto.html

As you can see. The 200P GoTo flextube is similar priced as the Celestron 6SE. So you get 2inch extra aperture and close to the same focal length (only 300mm difference), for the same Money.

The 200P also has a smaller Central obstruction (and With a black shroud over the flex tube) will give more bright contrasty views than the 6SE. Especially on DSO´s.

As you already have a 4inch newt. Going to 6inch will not be as much a wow moment, as going to an 8inch.

[Doyley]

Hi Alan,

 

I got a SLT 127 at the start of the month, so I’m only getting used to it. I have however found it to be a brilliant 'scope.

 

Very clear images of Jupiter and the moon and good ones of Mars.

 

I have invested in some vibration pads which help stabilise the tripod and bought an 12mm XCel eyepiece which is clearer than the boxed 9mm.

 

I looked at the Skymax 127 but was advised that the goto system on the SLT 127 was easier to use and so far it has proved to be a doddle. It has only played up once and that was due to fat fingers on my behalf!  

I hope this helps.

Peter

[Gissajob]

Essential add-ons; sort out a power source for the goto, either AC adaptor and/or a jump starter, and make yourself a dew shield ( it is easy enough). Mine is about the same length as the OTA.

Later add-ons; the 9mm EP is poor, but the 25mm is acceptable so think about new EPs. I recommend the BST ones and use the 12mm, 15mm and 25mm the most. 8mm is good to have when conditions permit or for lunar. Based on my experience, I do not think it is worth getting the 5mm.

Yes, already asked FLO about a power source and I may be lazy and buy a dew shield at the same time. Reducing what I'm spending on the scope should allow me to get some more EPs without breaking the bank. Where did you get the BSTs from?

I guess it really depends also on your budget.  These little maks and SCT´s are great little planetary scopes that will give you nice views on planets.

As you can see. The 200P GoTo flextube is similar priced as the Celestron 6SE. So you get 2inch extra aperture and close to the same focal length (only 300mm difference), for the same Money.

The 200P also has a smaller Central obstruction (and With a black shroud over the flex tube) will give more bright contrasty views than the 6SE. Especially on DSO´s.

As you already have a 4inch newt. Going to 6inch will not be as much a wow moment, as going to an 8inch.

To be honest, my current scope isn't great, but it has been a good introduction to the hobby. So, I'm thinking of the Mak as my first 'proper' scope. Optics should be much better. And I need something portable, as I've just found out I'm being taken on a dark sky weekend later in the year! Yes, my wife actually encourages me!

I have invested in some vibration pads which help stabilise the tripod and bought an 12mm XCel eyepiece which is clearer than the boxed 9mm.

I hope this helps.

Peter

As I said, I've been thinking about EPs but the vibration pads are a good shout. How are you finding the scope for DSOs?

Thanks all - keep the advice coming.

Alan

[stevend]

Yes, already asked FLO about a power source and I may be lazy and buy a dew shield at the same time. Reducing what I'm spending on the scope should allow me to get some more EPs without breaking the bank. Where did you get the BSTs from?

I bought the car adaptor lead from FLO as I have a suitable car/AC adaptor at home that can take it, but I only use the jump starter. I place it underneath the accessory tray and it is easier if going to a remote site or even just moving around the garden as there are no leads to trip over.

BSTs are only available from Skies Unlimited (who have an ebay shop), sometimes they come up in the classifieds but you have to be fast.

What I like about my homemade dewshield is its size really helping to keep the dew away from the optics, really eay and cheap.

[GuillermoBarrancos]

If you have a car, the 200P flextube is actually quite portable tho.

As the tube can be collapsed, because of the truss design and also taken out off the base.

That is the whole idea behind the design of these scopes. To make them more portable and transportable by car to dark sites and star parties.

[Doyley]

Doyley, on 23 Apr 2014 - 11:49 AM, said:

I have invested in some vibration pads which help stabilise the tripod and bought an 12mm XCel eyepiece which is clearer than the boxed 9mm.

I hope this helps.

Peter

As I said, I've been thinking about EPs but the vibration pads are a good shout. How are you finding the scope for DSOs?

Thanks all - keep the advice coming.

Alan

Alan, to be honest i've not really had a look at DSO with this, spent my time on the planets.

Peter
 

[astrorabbit]

A couple of Christmases ago, I dipped my toes in the astro waters for the first time with a cheap and cheerful 4" Newtonian my wife bought from Jessops. Not a great scope, but it has helped me to realise this is a hobby I want to continue with, so it's time for an upgrade. I've decided I'm going to go for a GoTo, and I'd more or less decided to buy a Celestron Nexstar 6SE. But then a question occurred to me. The 6SE is just about £800. The Celestron Nexstar 127 SLT is less than half that price, as is the Skywatcher Skymax 127.

So, my question to you all is this - is the 6SE worth the extra money for the extra 1" (or 0.91" actually) of aperture? Is there something else about the scope that's worth that extra outlay?

I'll be using the new scope for moon, planets and the easier DSOs, and for just the general wow-look-at-that type of viewing.

Any help gratefully received.

Alan

I own the 6se and can say that if you're not imaging then get the biggest mirror that your budget will stretch to. I like others advise looking at ex demo or second hand 200p flextubes too. If you have the space for one and transport isn't an issue then you'll love the views it gives.

If you're decided that solar system is the only viewing you'll be doing then the 127 will shine for such a small package and has the storage and portability benefits to boot.

If you are intending on making this a proper hobby then bigger is better, I'd not worry about the focal length differences between the 6se and 200p flextube as this can be made up with eyepieces or barlows quite easily, and once you've started observing more dso's then the shorter focal length will be appreciated for wider views.

Don't get me wrong, I'll probably not part with my 6se as its such a great little performer, especially with decent ep's, the focal reducer option and a 2 inch diagonal... You get a vast amount of flexibility from a tiny scope, I've managed to resolve stars in m13 with it in heavy London light pollution which wowed me, not to mention pushing 375x mag on Jupiter and resolving details in the cloud bands recently... Another surprise for such a small mirror, helped by a night of superb seeing. The key is to get a good deal and scour the second hand market for a bargain. I bought mine for half the rrp in pretty much perfect condition with a few extras too. Getting a good deal will allow you to purchase a few decent ep's and other required bits. The same goes for the 200p though.

Apart from the limitations of the 6se being a relatively slow scope for visual I will mention that in UK weather its quite prone to fogging up on the corrector plate, and really benefits from a good cool down. This will be the case with all scopes of this design as they are quite sealed as a design and all have a glass corrector on the front. Also worth mentioning that the mount for the 6se is quite prone to shaking/vibrations, even when simply focusing which becomes a chore and makes observing frustrating, I can see this being a problem with the 127 too as they are both long in their focal lengths. Personally I use my 6se on a completely manual and very heavy duty tripod which transformed its performance and love learning the night sky with it.

[Gissajob]

Thanks everyone for the input. I've ordered the 127 Mak, along with a few bits and pieces recommended above. I still need to sort out some EPs and will probably go for the BSTs, if only because FLO are currently out of stock on the equivalent Celestron EPs. And I realised that I need to get a collimator - anyone got any recommendations?

In the end, I decided to be realistic about my budget so the Mak was the better choice. I was also flicking through Turn Left last night, and a lot of the objects in there which I haven't found yet are rated as easily viewable in a 4" scope, so the Mak should have some treats in store for me.

I can see me looking at something with a larger aperture in a couple of years, if I can convince the wife. And perhaps by then the new Celestron NexStar Evolution scopes might be the ones to go for.

Alan

[stevend]

 And I realised that I need to get a collimator - anyone got any recommendations?

I would not get a collimator until you need it. I have not got one and MAKs rarely need collimating.

[Northern Soul man]

Nice 1 Alan, you've got some great advice off here as always, as Steve says, don't worry too much about collimation, they're factory collimated and rarely need any adjustment from my experience anyway.

They have a long focal length (I think about 11.8 or there a bouts) but don't be put off hunting the brighter DSO's down, just be aware of a few things, try to observe your DSO'S as high in the sky as possible - most of the Messier's will be in range (depending on your level of light pollution - I have around mag 4 skies with light pollution, using the stars in Triangulum to assess magnitude) - these ones tend to be the more "compact" objects - meaning the brighter, smaller more pronounced galaxies, the Globulars - the tighter the better,say the double cluster in Perseus,  NGC 869 and I think 884 from memory will have to be done in 2 goes, using a hood over your head to completely cover your head and drooped over the EP helps greatly with contrast and really brings "life" to the FOV- also if you miss the object due to low surface brightness, try increasing you mag a little to help with contrast, also, using the direction buttons have a scan around once aligned on the object.

Regarding the new Nexstar Evolution - not sure if anyone else has any thoughts on them - I think the 6" should just about be ok, but I would be a little wary on an 8" and especially the 9.25" mounted on a single fork arm - the dual fork arm are much more stable and a pleasure to use - even the 11" is rock solid - just best to wait until the Evolution's have been around and see if we can get any reviews on them - for the life of me I'm not sure where the range will " fit " in Celestron's product catalogue unless they have truly "beefed" up the single fork arm mount design - just my thoughts anyway.

All the best Alan and keep us in touch with your progress.  Regards  Paul.

[Gissajob]

Paul, thanks for the advice. My back garden is right on the edge of the village I live in, so to the east and south the skies are quite good. West is a waste of time though - it's an orange glow. And someone's had the nerve to build houses and grow trees to the north. Some people... I'm aware that the 127 mak won't let me see the faint DSOs, but what's in Turn Left will do for now.

As for the future, I think I'm more likely to upgrade to a better mount at some point and then upgrade the OTA later. If I have the money...

Alan

[Gissajob]

My little Mak arrived today, so the clouds are my fault - sorry. I have a question which some of you may be able to answer. I already have a Rigel from my old scope, and I've been told that the RDF which comes with the Mak isn't up to much, so I'm going to put the Rigel on instead. In fact, the RDF looks just like the one I took off the old scope, so I know I'm happier with the Rigel.

Question - is there any problem if I remove the RDF mount and put the Rigel mount in it's place? The RDF mount is secured by 2 screws, and I have a spare Rigel base plate which is secured by 2 sticky pads so it will go. But is it a problem leaving the screw holes from the RDF open? If it is, I'll put the Rigel mount just in front of the RDF mount.

Alan

[Stu_]

Congratulations on the purchase.

I'm guessing it is the same shoe they use on reflectors, this has 2 bolts & a plate on the inner, which you don't want to drop into the ota, also the holes will let dust in.

My advise is to mount your rigel next to the shoe, as you may want to use a magnifying finder in conjunction with the rigel.

[Gissajob]

Thanks Stu. I had been thinking it might not be a good idea, and I think the Rigel will be easier to use if it's closer to the other end of the OTA anyway.

Now I just need those clouds to go away.

Alan