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Paramount ME II or 10 Micron 2000HPS


jaspalchadha

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I think the specs are about the same but it has the faster GM1000 control box and a single cable to the mount.

It all comes down to whether you want to do unguided without a computer (10micron) or be completely computer dependent (bisque) and maybe do unguided.

/per

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Too many other issues apart from simple mechanical accuracy to rely on un-guided tracking for long exposures, atmospheric refraction and turbulence being one. It's so easily corrected with an optical guider I can't think of a good reason not to use one regardless of the mount's inherant accuracy.

ChrisH

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I've got a skywatcher 100 ed will at some stage try for a 10 or 12 inch RC

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Don't you think the ME is a bit over kill for a 10" or 12" RC? I know over kill on a mount is kind of obsurd but have you though of the MX? It has a 40kg capacity and would easily slew around a 12" RC. I would think a 1k 10Micron would be able to do the same as well even though its capacity is less.

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Well, on my HPS 1000, it doesn't matter if you get a power cut, bump into the mount, release the clutches and spin it anywhere, move it when parked etc, it always knows exactly where it is, with pinpoint precision, and will put you right back on the target next time you want to use it. 

I'm using it with long focal length scope at the moment, and guiding, but with my 150ED or shorter it will easily do 20 minute unguided subs.

It's easy enough to link it up to sky chart software, but I find myself just using the handset to find my targets, unless i'm hunting faint stuff that I dont know the names of etc.

Cheers

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ME and all 10Micron mounts use a belt-drive for the first stage reduction and then a worm. As Tim says, the 10m mounts never get lost, while the Bisque ones need homing if the get lost. You will get equal results with both but you can ditch the guiding with 10m. The 2000 version is extremely stable and mine has performed well with the most notable thing being one-hour subs unguided at 1000mm focal length.

/per

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  • 1 year later...

Just planning my next mount and have shortlisted the 10micron and the MEII so this thread is interesting...

From what I can make out (please correct me if not accurate):

  • 10micron mount slews and tracks much faster and therefore might be better for tracking satellites / comets / asteroids?
  • MEII has TPoint tightly integrated via TheSkyX with plate solving to improve automated modelling and pointing and the modelling can take far more samples
  • 10Micron has axis encoders and will always know where it is pointing
  • MEII carries more weight - I am planning on a 16 or 17 inch RC or CDK scope. Will the 10micron handle this with imaging equipment and guide scope?  I do plan to guide because I like to, though think the 10Micron is better at non guiding imaging despite the MEII having Pro Track?

I know there are far more points of comparison but trying to nail it down to the key differentiators...

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I'm uncertain where the idea started that the paramount requires a computer. I have an MX+ and do fine without a computer for visual on nights I'm not taking images.

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Unless you actually need the greater load capacity of the ME, I'd go with the 2000HPS.

It's a little cheaper when you add taxes to the price - (Oddly, the UK retail price is much less than buying direct from Bisque). The manufacturer is much closer, so hopefully will provide better support, rather than one that is half  a world away. And, the clincher for me at any rate, is that the 10Micron product just seems more modern.

Oh, and as far as encoders go - the Bisque website says this, under the heading of "Disadvantages": Availability: The on-axis encoder option is not presently available. :huh:

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Just planning my next mount and have shortlisted the 10micron and the MEII so this thread is interesting...

From what I can make out (please correct me if not accurate):

  • 10micron mount slews and tracks much faster and therefore might be better for tracking satellites / comets / asteroids?
  • MEII has TPoint tightly integrated via TheSkyX with plate solving to improve automated modelling and pointing and the modelling can take far more samples
  • 10Micron has axis encoders and will always know where it is pointing
  • MEII carries more weight - I am planning on a 16 or 17 inch RC or CDK scope. Will the 10micron handle this with imaging equipment and guide scope?  I do plan to guide because I like to, though think the 10Micron is better at non guiding imaging despite the MEII having Pro Track?

I know there are far more points of comparison but trying to nail it down to the key differentiators...

10Micron has a model solution similar to, but more robust than, TPoint. The main difference is that the 10Micron one is more immune to polar errors and that  it also includes tracking (as the BIsque Protrack). Besides, it is built into the mount, so it works even without a PC.

!0Micron mounts also track any satellite, comet or junk you care to track. You can upload TLE files to it and just start tracking. It will auto-flip in no time flat when needed and just continue as if nothing happened.

The ME II is encoder prepared but they have to be mounted at the factory. They are Renishaw encoders and will set you back a bit over $3000 per axis, but are not available. My own take on them not being available is that I am very much aware of the alignment challenges with Renishaws and totally understand why they are having difficulties to launch this. 

Yes, the 10Micron mounts are much more modern than any American offering, that is for certain. They have evrything built in from start and do not need a pile of software on a personal computer n order to do their thing. One indication of modernity is that there are no things what so ever that need adjustment in a 10Micron mount, while the two top American brands have procedures that you have to perform regularly, like re-meshing gears and adjusting worms. The 10Microns have the little label that us DIY-ers hate so much; "Warranty void if cover removed", and can be sent to the factory every ten ears for service (can, not must),

You wil lget the same results wih a 10Micron as with an ME II. The difference is in the way you obtain the results. Computer dependency/no computer dependency, tweak/no tweak, homing/no homing, get lost/never get lost, no encoders/encoders, guiding/no guiding.

It should be noted that an ME II with Protrack and a 300 point model may very well get you some unguided imaging. The 10Micron gives you that right out of the box with a 50 point model. Both mounts are excellent choices!

All the best,

Per

Edit: Forgot one thing... The 10Micron mounts use the absolute encoders in the motor control loop itself. Other encoder solutions, like the AP and Bisques ones, use the encoders as adjustments to an already existing motor control, a solution that I would call "bolt-on" in contrast to "integrated" as in the 10Micron solution. For 10Micron mounts, this means that there is no PE to handle as it becomes virtually zero when the encoders are in he control loop of the motors.

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I'm uncertain where the idea started that the paramount requires a computer. I have an MX+ and do fine without a computer for visual on nights I'm not taking images.

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I think it comes from the fact that most of the advanced features of the Bisque mounts come from software on your PC. For visual use that may be OK, but for imaging it certainly needs the computer.

/per

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I guess, via ASCOM, its possible to build a TPoint model to use with the 10Micron via connection to TheSkyX anyway, right?  

Rightly or wrongly I actually like using the computer - part of my enjoyment of this 'hobby' (more than that as it needs hrs a day lol) are all the software tools, visual displays, tweaking etc.  I have a statistical modelling background so love TPoint (sure I would love 10Micron's equivalent also).  Its the same reason I like all the guiding elements.  I may grow out of this once I become a better imager if I notice its better for image quality to do everything via the mount, who knows!

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Being so tightly integrated into its software is what makes it so awesome, but I operate it using my iPhone and their app by ways of their wisky network, but for imaging you want a mount designed from the ground up to function with the software... IMO

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One thing I notice on the 10Micron is that the payload capacity is 60kg.  A 16-17 inch RC or CDK is going to take around 45kg of that, then all other equipment is going to get quite close to the limit.  I think the payload limits EXCLUDE weight limits so it may well be good enough for what I want.  Need to add up the weights of all the equipment on my shopping list!

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