Another ATIK 314 or 460/490 thread !!!

[kirkster501]

Been saving up and got about £1000 ready The device needs to work on my ED80 scope with FRFF and also on my GSO RC8 scope.

I have been playing around on CCDcalc and on 12dstring online tool it looks to me the 314L could come in quite nice! I can get quite reasonably wide fields with 314 on the ED80 and more zoomed in for individual GC's and galaxies with my RC8. With the filter wheel and filters thrown from FLO for about £1600 thats a good deal. Or I could get a 460EX which is £2000 for just the camera and then I'd need the FW + filters. So over £1000 more. Hmm..... I was going to go for the 460EX but now not so sure. There is a large community of users of the 314 and that counts a lot. I know GIna, Olly, Johnrc and others rate this camera. I will also be a beginner with CCD so there sa part of me saying that the 314L wil be more than adequate! And £1000 less in total....

Appreciate thoughts and pointers please? In other words, please convince me one way or the other! Got another six - eight weeks or so before I pull the trigger on this.

Rgds, Steve

[swag72]

Mmm, interesting!! I have both the 314L+ and the 460EX. If I could only keep one? It would be the 460EX, in fact I am questioning the validity of the 314L+ at the moment. But that has more to do with my interests rather than anything else. After 2 and a half years in AP I have realised that my interests lie in nebula's and bigger stuff. The 314L+ just doesn't cut it unless I want to do mosaics on a large scale - Which I don't!

As an example of this, look at the image of IC1396 posted by AndyUK. Further down the post, he has added one pane of OIII from his 314L+ - This shows the small chip size very well. I could do the full IC1396 in 4 panes while Andy has taken 12.

I suppose that what I have learnt in AP is that life is always a compromise. Yes I'd love to put the 314L+ onto an 8" scope, the galaxies would look very nice indeed. I will only have one scope as this fits more in line with my personal imaging preferences.

Both camera's will give you good results, they are both excellent. You've done the right thing looking on CCDCalc etc, but at the end of the day it is down to which fov (314L+ or 460) you think you will prefer with your currents scope setup. Also I suppose a little of what you want to do with the images. I've never done anything more than look at them on my PC, if you were thinking of printing them, then the 314L+ would I think be pushing that a little for a decent size image from one pane.

Good luck with your choice, it sounds like it should be a nice choice to make but ultimately you will spend many hours in the betwix and between stage. One minute the 460 and the next the 314L+. The camera's will both work well there is no doubt - Now what fov with the two scopes that you have will your prefer to work with?

[Sp@ce_d]

I've been very happy with the 314L+ FW & filters (package from FLO) on the zs66 & ED80. Found it very easy to move from the DSLR to this. Think I'll be getting another to replace the DSLR on the dual rig soon as funds allow. I love the quiet Sony chip. As always it depends on what targets you're after for FOV. The larger the chip the more it costs... so it's also governed by your budget. I'd love to try the 490 though & it's a tempting price.

[Davey-T]

Have a look at some of the math and work out image scale of your setup in arc/secs /pixel. =ASIN(Pix/fl)*180/pi()*3600

Smaller pixels are supposedly better for shorter f/length.

Dave

[Sp@ce_d]

Have a look at some of the math and work out image scale of your setup in arc/secs /pixel. =ASIN(Pix/fl)*180/pi()*3600

Smaller pixels are supposedly better for shorter f/length.

Dave

One of the reasons the 490 looks so interestingly versatile with the possibility of binning & still retaining resolution.

[kirkster501]

Thanks for your thoughts! Whats this pixels per arc second all about then and why should it matter?

[Coco]

All depends on whether you happy taking the same old BIG nebula targets as everyone else year in year out. If you going for BIG targets you'd be better getting something bigger that the 460 as its not a BIG a step up from the 314 you might think..

Here is the popular IC1396 nebula through a 500mm focal length telescope using ATIK 314,460 & 383 now the 383 IS a big improvement on field of view..

[Earl]

Have to love the FoV of the 383

[Ibbo!]

but not the noise and dark frames

Steve

[ollypenrice]

but not the noise and dark frames

Steve

...and not the relatively sluggish response, either.

I don't know if you were thinking of electric filterwheels but, if you were, I'd get a humble manual one instead and up the spend on the camera. The 460 is very attractive, fantastically responsive and smooth. I was processing data from a guest's 460 yesterday. The hot pixel count on his chip was - ah - zero. No columns either. Not like my snowstorm of an 11 meg! Darks or defect maps are no big deal but those Sony chips are easy to love. Check out Rob's comments on his Bubble image.

Olly

[earth titan]

The FOV on the 314 is indeed small, but it's a brilliant sensor and plenty good for loads of targets. I'm going back and revisiting all the stuff I used to do with my DSLR, just cos the noise levels are soo low.

The step up in processing techniques is something to keep in mind also. I've found I need to buy a piece of processing software for LRGB - for star registration, as I found DSS wasn't doing a very good job. It was fine on the DSLR, but not so good working with effectively what amounts to four layers. This could easily eat £200 of your budget.

Typed by me on my fone, using fumms... Excuse eny speling errurs.

[sloz1664]

Steve,

£1600 or £2000 is a LOT of money considering you are stepping into unknown territory regarding

ccd imaging. You may not get on with the mono imaging especially with the filter set-up and our inclement

weather. There are some bargains to be had in the second hand market especially with the Sony 285 chip

(same as the 314L). You could cut your teeth on this, ensure the chip size is for you & then decide your options.

If the chip size is not for you you can then sell the camera and at the worst you may lose a few pound.

Just what I have done.

By the way I think the Sony 285 chip is brilliant, but then I have a QHY8 Pro to compliment it.

The again....if someone held a gun at my head and demanded I only keep one camera it would be my SXVF H9 (285 chip).

Steve

Steve

[Martin-Devon]

I started off with the 314L+ matched to an Ikharos 102mm refractor and loved it - very easy to use, no pressing need for darks. After 18 months though I was increasingly having to do mosaics to get my targets in and bought the 460EX. I then found that the 314 was never getting used, and after a few months sold it. The 460 is a great CCD, also very sensitive and just gave me more options on the field of view. With my current 106mm refractor the 314L+ would give a capture area of 43x58 arcmins, whereas the 460EX gives 65x81 arcmins, if I now add my reducer with the 460 I get 90x112 arcmins, which is pretty big. If you want to home in on small galaxies, the resolution is there with the 460 and a crop and then expansion works just fine.

If I were in your shoes, I'd maybe hunt for a cheapish 2nd hand 314L+ to cut my teeth with CCD imaging, but if one did not come up, I'd plump for the 460 since it will future-proof you much more. In terms of use, the 314L+ & 460EX are almost identical, they are both a doddle to use. If you go for the 314L+, I just think that sooner or later you will at some stage think about the next size up with a CCD.

Martin

[Gina]

All depends on whether you happy taking the same old BIG nebula targets as everyone else year in year out. If you going for BIG targets you'd be better getting something bigger that the 460 as its not a BIG a step up from the 314 you might think..

Here is the popular IC1396 nebula through a 500mm focal length telescope using ATIK 314,460 & 383 now the 383 IS a big improvement on field of view..

Thanks for pointing that out Guy Upgrading to a 460 was something I was thinking about but with the improvement in coverage being relatively small it's confirmed my other choice of buying another 314L+ mono and going dual rig with the ED80 and WF (not MN190 - my mount won't cope with two of them!). As for the 383, after the joy of the Sony chip with it's speed, sensitivity and very low noise level, I'm sticking with Sony chips.

[Coco]

Thanks for pointing that out Guy Upgrading to a 460 was something I was thinking about but with the improvement in coverage being relatively small it's confirmed my other choice of buying another 314L+ mono and going dual rig with the ED80 and WF (not MN190 - my mount won't cope with two of them!). As for the 383, after the joy of the Sony chip with it's speed, sensitivity and very low noise level, I'm sticking with Sony chips.

Gina the only thing that would put me off going back to a 383 is the mechanical shutter. Darks can easily cope with the hotties and as for sensitivity its no slouch either, not 'Sony sensitive' but in MONO would kick a DSLR into a cocked hat. I used 1.25 filters without issue once I modified the nose piece to but up against the filter wheel.

...and not the relatively sluggish response, either.

Olly

Relative to only a few smaller CCD's Olly, but more so in Colour

I'm looking at the 500mm APM (£1100) with the Riccardi will give 82' x 61' (314L @ f/4.5) as opposed 81' x 65' (460 @ f/4.75 ) to selling the 315 and buying a 460 ( £2045 less £700) makes better sense to me.

Same great camera +2nd scope ... happy days.. I can observe with one and image with the other

Just another pennies worth,..

.

[Coco]

Been saving up and got about £1000 ready The device needs to work on my ED80 scope with FRFF and also on my GSO RC8 scope.

I have been playing around on CCDcalc and on 12dstring online tool it looks to me the 314L could come in quite nice! I can get quite reasonably wide fields with 314 on the ED80 and more zoomed in for individual GC's and galaxies with my RC8. With the filter wheel and filters thrown from FLO for about £1600 thats a good deal. Or I could get a 460EX which is £2000 for just the camera and then I'd need the FW + filters. So over £1000 more. Hmm..... I was going to go for the 460EX but now not so sure. There is a large community of users of the 314 and that counts a lot. I know GIna, Olly, Johnrc and others rate this camera. I will also be a beginner with CCD so there sa part of me saying that the 314L wil be more than adequate! And £1000 less in total....

Appreciate thoughts and pointers please? In other words, please convince me one way or the other! Got another six - eight weeks or so before I pull the trigger on this.

Rgds, Steve

What about selling the ED80 and buying the new Skywatcher Esprit 80?

http://www.firstligh...ro-triplet.html

1. Skywatcher Esprit 80 f/5 (FAST!) + 314L FOV 77.3' x 57.6' £1800 (£1100 + £700) second hand 314L

2. Skywatcher ED80 f/7.5 (SLOW) + 460 FOV 71.6' x 57.3' £2,045

I know which I would pick...

[kirkster501]

This is great commentary guys! Please keep it coming.... 460 looking good. ££££ though !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Coco]

This is great commentary guys! Please keep it coming.... 460 looking good. ££££ though !

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The de-fraction spikes from your RC8 would look more attractive with a 460, see robs bubble as per reply.

[Earl]

Im overall disappointed with the new CCD's as the FOV is too tight with 80mm fast refractors, this is why I prefer the 383 to be honest, the dark issue and cosmetic correction is not exactly hard to deal with it takes a few clicks of the mouse to do.

I was happy with its sensitivity Mono, I cant comment on OSC and tbh wouldn't want to find out either LOL

It fits in a sweet spot imo, and if I get back into DSO imaging I will again seriously look at the 8300 chip, but ill look at a better quality offering than the Atik.

[Coco]

Im overall disappointed with the new CCD's as the FOV is too tight with 80mm fast refractors, this is why I prefer the 383 to be honest, the dark issue and cosmetic correction is not exactly hard to deal with it takes a few clicks of the mouse to do.

I was happy with its sensitivity Mono, I cant comment on OSC and tbh wouldn't want to find out either LOL

It fits in a sweet spot imo, and if I get back into DSO imaging I will again seriously look at the 8300 chip, but ill look at a better quality offering than the Atik.

Indeed I'd love this @ £1894 plus shipping and possibly TAX.. .. ... http://www.qsimaging.com/583-overview.html

[Davey-T]

It's hard to be content with what you've got, or can afford , I have a 10" SCT that I'd like to replace with a 10" RC and 10 Micron mount and a 100mm refractor that I'd like to replace with a

nice trip apo and another mount and an Atik 314L+ that I would like to complement with larger chip camera.

I'd also like to move house to darker skies.

Failing winning the lottery (unlikely as I don't do it) I'll just have to carry on saving up.

The conclusion is that I've only scratched the surface of the capability of the stuff I have at the moment and there will always be bigger, better stuff out there, so just dive in and buy something,

anything, it will give you hours of pleasure, and you can always sell it and move on.

Dave

[kirkster501]

Well said Dave.

[AlistairHowie]

Indeed I'd love this @ £1894 plus shipping and possibly TAX.. .. ... http://www.qsimaging...3-overview.html

You can get one for £2,150 on ABS at the moment including integrated OAG http://www.astrobuysell.com/uk/propview.php?view=67366 Been up for some time so I'm sure they would take an offer. But note that full frame image download is about 20 seconds, which I think would be an inconvenience, particularly for taking flats.

[mhard26339]

Excellent thread, I am presently going through the exact same thought process. some great advice but as with most threads with every answer there are 10 more questions!!! but thanks all

[kirkster501]

I am erring towards the 314L to be honest. Sure the 460/490 would be very, very nice. No doubt about that. But it's a lot of money and not sure i can justify spending that much with the weather we have in UK. No matter what one buys, there is always something better...

That said, "fools rush in" and all that..... Will have a hard think about it over next few weeks. AP practically impossible in summer months anyway so no rush to make a decision.