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TAL 100RS or Evostar 120 ... that age-old discussion


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Arrghhh! I'm reading and re-reading all the reviews... but I just cannot make my mind up.

One one hand the TAL 100RS has so many positive reviews and really nothing against it (apart from the "rough around the seams" issues that a bit of DIY can't improve)

On the other hand it is aperture! aperture! aperture! I will regret not having those extra 20mm

On the other hand a larger scope will have more CA

On the other hand CA can be ignored, or managed with filters

On the other hand a smaller crisper image is more pleasing and the optics of the TAL win here

On the other hand would I really notice the quality of the optics - and if I am doing that, am I falling down the audiophile trap of listening to sound quality rather than the music.

On the other hand there is also the Lyra Optics f/11 refractor for a little bit more users gush over.

Anyway, wouldn't a larger reflector be more handy for DSOs?

I can't stand it. I just can't stand it!

Arghhh!

- Tony

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Hi Tony,

I have the 100RS, and the CA isn't bad at all. It's certainly there but not intrusive enough to bother me. That said, if you can manage a bigger reflector (and the associated side effects - physical size, cooling, collimation, more demanding of EP's etc.) that would be my choice over either. They just do more for your money.

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LOL, yeah, nicepost Tony! This will certainly drive you mad, and is always a bit of a circular debate :grin:

If it's any help, I have the Evostar 120, and have tried the Tal (although not extensively), and would personally come down on the side of the Evostar, but only just. I found the Tal to be slightly crisper viewing, but the Evostar's extra aperture does make a difference. The CA issue is a bit of a red herring in my view, as both scopes are fracs, and CA is something that either bothers you or it doesn't, and can be controlled with filters to some extent anyway. I have no experience of the Lyra Optics scope? I now realise that I have pretty much repeated all the things you have said already :wink:

I had this dilemma when deciding between the Evostar or a reflector, but in the end you will have to make a decision, and I would say, now that you know the facts, go with your feelings!

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Following this thread with interest as I'm contemplating something very similar although I just want something for lunar and planets to use from home, I'm covered for a scope for DSO's.

Was thinking along the lines of the Tal with a Vixen Porta...?

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I've owned both scopes and it is a tough choice for the reasons given above. The 20mm additional aperture will deliver slightly better views of deep sky objects but, in my opinion, the additional CA generated by the 120mm F/8.3 optical system plus the SA (spherical aberration) found in most chinese achromats seem act as equalisers with regard to planetary and lunar definition even when CA reducing filters are used.

The TAL 100 is a bit easier to mount I reckon although, having tried it, I reckon a Vixen Porta mount might be a bit on the light side for high power viewing even with the TAL. The Evostar 120mm's have (or used to have) collimatable objective lens cells which can be useful if the collimation is a little out of whack (yes, it does happen with refractors too).

I have an ED120 now which is superb but in a different price bracket to the achromats of course :grin:

Neither the TAL or the Evostar 120's are expensive, especially if bought used. £100 - £150 should see you with a nice one.

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Hmmmm.

Many, many thanks for the time take to reply so far and share your own experiences and recommendations. Much appreciated. Very informative and useful. And I am still totally lost. Hmmmm.

Buying both is a bit challenging - the prices here in Norway *gulp* - that would be in the region of £1800.

Hmmm.

And might the TAL 125RS achromatic become more available in the near future? Hmmmm.

If I really want to start doing some deep, deep DSO'ing, I'd want a larger reflector or Dobson anyway, so this would really be for planetary stuff. Hmmmm.

And I want to get my little girl interested, and a refractor on an EQ5 will be easier for her to manage than a large reflector. Maybe. Hmmmm.

And Sir Patrick himself started out with a decent 3" refractor and it didn't do him any harm. He continued to use it throughout his life, so it was worth every penny. Hmmmm.

I don't know. I just don't know.

I keep hearing whispers in my head

TAL! TAL! TAL!

aperture! aperture! aperture!

Hmmmmm.

Hmmmmm.

- Tony

Hmmmmm.

Sorry if the Hmmmm'ing got on anyone's nerves, but this shows the state of my mind at the moment! :confused:

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.....Buying both is a bit challenging - the prices here in Norway *gulp* - that would be in the region of £1800......might the TAL 125RS achromatic become more available in the near future?

Wow :shocked: - and we moan about the prices of equipment in the UK !

Personally I don't think the TAL 125RS or the TAL 125 Apolar will become available in any numbers. Dealers are wary of their quality control I believe.

One alternative might be a Meade AR5 / Bresser 127L. These are the same scopes and are 127mm (ie: full 5 inch) F/9.3 achromat refractors. I've owned a couple of them and optically they were pretty good - typically less CA than the Skywatcher Evostar 120mm's. They need a more substantial mount than the TAL 100's but are definitely into "big refractor" territory in my opinion. New, their prices are silly but the used market does throw them up for around £200 from time to time. A "wanted" advert on the UK Astro Buy & Sell website sometimes works wonders :smiley:

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Great post...:) I know what you mean, I have just been through the same thing on deciding about a frac.

You read, and you read more, then you keep reading and then your head starts to implode. I have though made my decision and today I have ordered the 4" Lyra optic and feel very comfortable about it all now...:) The build quality of them is what sold it for me along with some very useful help by a couple of forum members..

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I have no experience with the Evostar but here are some thoughts I have on my Tal 100rs.

The rolled metal tube aids for almost instant cool down and is relatively heavy, white, built like a Siberian tank, will outlive everyone reading this post and will probably witness the clash of Andromeda and the Milky Way. The OTA surrenders gorgeous views, has some fantastic assessories (the 6mm isn't that great but the 25mm is very nice) and the optics will be as perfectly perfect as they could ever be for a 4" F/10 achromatic refractor within the given price range.

The Crayford focuser is sweetly made and has exceptionally good movement. I love the cold, metal, nicely sized, knurled focusing knobs. The Crayford itself glides with all my eyepieces and has a sublime feel about it. The finder is excellent, but in the end, due to problems with light pollution and star hopping, I changed mine for a bigger, correct image one. The only plastic on the entire telescope I can find seems to be the dust-shield and caps.

The 4” f/10 design means that you can achieve high magnifications without having to look through pin-hole eyepieces or introduce a Barlow. Planets like Jupiter have wonderful contrast and double stars up to about magnitude 9 or 10 are simply splendid. The quality of optics allows me 200x on binaries from which I can start measuring their angle and seperation with excellent results.

On the Moon, no matter what magnification you’re pushing there isn’t any false colour that I can see and on Jupiter, for example, at around 140x plus, the Tal displays a very narrow, violet fringe just outside the planet’s limb. To be honest, it isn’t too much of an issue for me and judging by artist’s sketches, it doesn’t have any noticeable impact on what detail you can actually see. If you don’t like the little CA, you can always use a light yellow filter. I use a light blue one to tweak out further detail. Of course, aberration on Venus is a lot more violent, but it isn’t a planet I find that interesting to view for much time.

The Tal easily shows the Great Red Spot but it isn’t that Great and isn’t that Red, resembling more a pale pink blur (is it any different in an 8" newt?). The equatorial belts are easily visible and offer you a brownish-red colour with a hint of detail along the edges of the bands and a hint of festoons. Jovian moon transit shadows are sharp and clean and the Jovian moons themselves appear as perfect, tiny disks.

Solar observations in white light are spectacular and the quality and sharpness of view equal the photo-images in white light you find here on SGL. Needless to say, open clusters and star fields are sharp, crisp with pin point beauty and colour and you can get some really decent views (although nothing like a bigger aperture would resolve) of the brighter Messier and NGC catalogued objects.

It is my opinion that if you were buying new, you would probably have to spend between 2.5 to 3 times as much money on any other 4” refractor to get a even a barely detectable improvement in these kinds of views.

If you are in the market for an excellent quality 4” achromatic refractor, I would say that this OTA would be one of the very best you could buy. I think the Lyra Optics would also come up trumps and perhaps be even better than the Tal. If I lived in the UK and didn’t have to deal with frightening exchange rates, bank charges, transport fees and the such, it would be a very difficult call between them.

Anyway, here are some pics of the Tal 100rs and the accessories included in the general package:

tal100rs1.jpg

tal100rs2.jpg

tal100rs3.jpg

Hope this helped a little.

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Great post... :) I know what you mean, I have just been through the same thing on deciding about a frac.

You read, and you read more, then you keep reading and then your head starts to implode. I have though made my decision and today I have ordered the 4" Lyra optic and feel very comfortable about it all now... :) The build quality of them is what sold it for me along with some very useful help by a couple of forum members..

Excellent choice, Foundaplanet. I would simply love to have a look through your new OTA! It is a most beautiful, aesthetically looking telescope and I'm sure the views will match. I look forward to seeing some photos of your new set up and a first light report. By the way, what are you going to mount the little gem on? I have found the EQ5 excellent for the Tal in general (no vibration, solid and sturdy) and when I need a grab and go for my dark site, the AZ 4.

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I have no experience with the Evostar but here are some thoughts I have on my Tal 100rs.

The rolled metal tube aids for almost instant cool down and is relatively heavy, white, built like a Siberian tank, will outlive everyone reading this post and will probably witness the clash of Andromeda and the Milky Way.

:grin: Excellent :grin:

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Another 100mm refractor that is worth considering, again to buy used, is the Skywatcher ED100. These can be bought used for around £250 in the UK and the optics in these things are superb. They are also light and easy to mount.

Sorry for introducing another option !

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Excellent choice, Foundaplanet. I would simply love to have a look through your new OTA! It is a most beautiful, aesthetically looking telescope and I'm sure the views will match. I look forward to seeing some photos of your new set up and a first light report. By the way, what are you going to mount the little gem on? I have found the EQ5 excellent for the Tal in general (no vibration, solid and sturdy) and when I need a grab and go for my dark site, the AZ 4.

Thank you Qualia,

I have a neq6 to mount it on but I also have a plan for an alt/az for it.

I am very much looking forwards to its arrival and first light, for sure I'll have a go at writing a report and posting pics...:)

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Thank you all again for your input and passion!

It strikes me that actually I should not be stressing too much. All the gear mentioned is high quality (provided they are "good" ones) and I don't think I need to worry too much about throwing my money at an inferior item. It all comes down to taste.

Quailia: Thank you so much for taking the time to give such a detailed and carefully presented discussion of your experiences with the TAL. I appreciate your work to help me and other curious community members here. Thank you!

The Lyra is still a contender after reading all this and, foundaplanet, I will be really interested in your first thoughts once you experience first light with it.

Being in Norway, the main hassle is going to be buying it and getting it back here, so the cost difference between the Lyra and the TAL is about £130. The question is, is the £130 extra a worthwhile improvement. Anyone who has compared the two side-by-side and could describe how they compare and contrast - their comments would be very much appreciated

John, I have thought about going the used route and trying out an ED glass refractor, but, on second thoughts, I really think in my situation it is wise to go down the "new" route, rather than used, because I can't make a trip out to the UK just to inspect a used item and then find, for some reason, it does not meet my expectations or the description (been bitten like that before).

And Vigdis, you're probably right, I will probably end up owning several things down the years. But, as I said in an earlier post in a different thread, I refuse to go down the "pump more money in" well-trodden path. Like music, I get as much pleasure from an old 1960s table-top auto-changer blurting out scratchy 45s stacked on top of eachother, as I would with a £1 billion sound system (with speaker cables costing £50000 per metre) and the "listener" trying to discern sibilance in the cymbals rather than listening to the music. At the end of the day (or rather night) I just want to look through a scope and see some of the Universe that is before my eyes (rather than on a computer screen, or the pages of a book).

Thank you all once again, and I will continue watching what you write or add with interest.

Tony

Hmmmm :wink2:

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Nice one, Tony and thank you for the kind reply.

At the end of the day (or rather night) I just want to look through a scope and see some of the Universe that is before my eyes...

Reading your sentiments above is there any reason a priori for not choosing, say, something like an 8" or 10" Dob as your first telescope? You see, I say this because although I love my frac I do appreciate its limited aperture and realise that a bigger, wider field scope has some marvellous advantages. I don't think I will ever sell the Tal but I am now in the process of purchasing a bigger (much bigger) dob. In the end, I guess it's just as Vigdiz says, most of us end up with both types.

Anyway, with that said, keep posting up your thoughts and insights and I'm sure everyone here will try to help as best they can.

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Reading your sentiments above is there any reason a priori for not choosing, say, something like an 8" or 10" Dob as your first telescope?

I dunno, Qualia. I guess it is just I have always thought of my first telescope as being a refractor. Also, I want to have the least fuss and lowest maintenance to begin with. I really want the tool to be an extension of my eyes and binoculars. Something to split binaries, or see the rings of Saturn, or the big red spot (smudgy pale pink blob) of Jupiter. Something to decipher the beauty of the Pleiades, or the Trapezium. Or, as I mentioned in another post, follow my OCD compulsion to hop from Bayer number to Bayer number in each constellation. In the future as I get more time (I've a nestful of young ones at the moment) I can then spend more time investigating the telescopes themselves. I just have to keep my real desire at the forefront... to look at the heavens. But a nice bit of kit to admire when it has clouded over doesn't go amiss!

- Tony

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Just another observation. The Lyra is 102mm compared to 100mm. I suppose technically this means that a 2% increase in diameter results in just slightly over 4% increase in light-gathering, so objects will appear brighter on paper (this has been noted in some threads). That is, if every millimetre of aperture is effective.

Or is this level of precision just getting plain crazy?

- Tony

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At the end of the day (or rather night) I just want to look through a scope and see some of the Universe that is before my eyes (rather than on a computer screen, or the pages of a book).

So say we all :grin: :grin:

This is common affliction its called "paralysis by analysis" . I usually know what I REALLY want and end up buying it

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