Debayering a DSLR's Bayer matrix.

[Thalestris24]

13 minutes ago, Noobulosity said:

I've seen DCM mentioned multiple times, but it sounds like that stuff is pretty bad for you. I tried DMSO because it's actually pretty safe, and even used as a topical pain reliever.

I contacted the chemical company I found earlier to see if they have a recommendation.

But, yes, it's possible that dissolving the coating could mean dissolving protective layers and even attacking the tiny electronics. Guess we'll see. That's why I'll practice on the damaged sensors.

I don't think it's that bad so long as you take reasonable precautions - wear gloves, only use small quantities and in a very well ventilated space etc. There have been moves to ban its use in paint strippers though you can still get 'industrial strength' paint strippers that use it. It is highly volatile (low BP) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane. I think there have been problems where people have used large quantities of it in enclosed spaces... Paint strippers from yer local hardware shop used to contain it until not so long ago - banned by the EU since ~2011, I think. 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dichloromethane-DCM-Methylene-Chloride-99-9-AR-grade-500ml/292954072026?hash=item44356c63da:g:4eUAAOSwjedcXvfT

Xylene might be another to try - same precautions: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rustins-Xylene-Thinner-500ml-RUSXT500/331912189661?epid=1128096136&hash=item4d478216dd:g:-JsAAOSwb3laBdtC

Anyway, good luck!

Louise

 

 

[Noobulosity]

Turns out that the chemical company I contacted, a subsidiary of Merck, doesn't sell to the US.  So, I shot a message over to DuPont to see what they have to recommend.  My father-in-law has also done extensive work with plastic films, and may be able to recommend something or reach out to his contacts on this subject.

[Thalestris24]

Ahh - sorry, I'd forgotten you are in the States! My links above not very helpful... Still you should have equivalent sources and brands. Maybe you can get hold of some of the actual nmp? 

Louise

[Noobulosity]

No worries!  I have feelers out.  We'll see if I get any useful information.

[Noobulosity]

I've gotten one response from a chemical company, so far.  They recommended KMG GenSolve 475, which just stated that it's an organic solvent and is about $400 for a gallon bottle.  No actual data on the solvent type used.  So, unless someone knows more about it, that feels like a dead end.

[Thalestris24]

I think this is the dichloromethane:

https://www.amazon.com/Grobet-Attack-Glue-Dissolving-Compound/dp/B00B7LXAYE

I gather it 'attacks' the surface of cured epoxy, softening it and making it easier to remove.

Louise

[Stub Mandrel]

10 hours ago, Noobulosity said:

I've gotten one response from a chemical company, so far.  They recommended KMG GenSolve 475, which just stated that it's an organic solvent and is about $400 for a gallon bottle.  No actual data on the solvent type used.  So, unless someone knows more about it, that feels like a dead end.

From the MSDS:

" The identities of the materials in this product are withheld as a trade secret (29CFR1910.1210(i)) and are available to a physician or paramedical personnel in a emergency situation."

It's always worth a try googling <product name> MSDS.

bear in mind that the fundamental solvent is only going to be one of a fairly liomited range of options, it's the additives they keep secret.

[Noobulosity]

I can appreciate there are some nasty chemicals out there that can dissolve a lot of things.  I'm just putting off trying some of them until I have no other options.  Dichloromethane is one of those I'm avoiding for now, but may try later on if I run out of options.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane#Toxicity

I have a can of Klean Strip varnish stripper that says it works on epoxies, too, but I couldn't see much of a result from it.  It also evaporated extremely quickly, so keeping enough of it on the surface to even start doing anything would be challenging.  MSDS sheet says benzyl alcohol with some small amounts of additives.

[Thalestris24]

2 minutes ago, Noobulosity said:

I can appreciate there are some nasty chemicals out there that can dissolve a lot of things.  I'm just putting off trying some of them until I have no other options.  Dichloromethane is one of those I'm avoiding for now, but may try later on if I run out of options.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dichloromethane#Toxicity

I have a can of Klean Strip varnish stripper that says it works on epoxies, too, but I couldn't see much of a result from it.  It also evaporated extremely quickly, so keeping enough of it on the surface to even start doing anything would be challenging.  MSDS sheet says benzyl alcohol with some small amounts of additives.

Um, Klean Strip appears to contain dichloromethane ('methylene chloride') hence its volatility. You probably have to try and keep the ambient temperature fairly low. There's no guarantee that dichloromethane will actually work on Canon sensors. Maybe try putting a thick layer on and keep it in a small sealed jar for a while and see if the coating softens at all.

Louise

[Thalestris24]

ps The Klean Strip appears to also contain methanol which might affect its action on epoxy though I don't know

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Klean-Strip-Remover-Klean-Band-Stripper-Brushable/dp/B000KKOR1S#customerReviews

[Noobulosity]

Yep, that one does.  Mine is the "green" version, which appears to be called the "Safer Stripper" version, at this point.  That still has some type of methanol in it, but it specifically says it contains no methylene chloride or NMP.  So, it's not the standard version of the product.

[Thalestris24]

Just now, Noobulosity said:

Yep, that one does.  Mine is the "green" version, which appears to be called the "Safer Stripper" version, at this point.  That still has some type of methanol in it, but it specifically says it contains no methylene chloride or NMP.  So, it's not the standard version of the product.

Oh ok. Methanol won't do anything.

[benzomobile]

Please, keep out of methanol. It's extremely poisonous!

Beppe

[Noobulosity]

I haven't tried any new chemicals to remove the CFA, yet. However, I did want to share my latest test image. This is a very quick and dirty edit of a small stack and short integration time, only 16 minutes of light frames, shot in H-alpha only. Basic stretching of the data and noise reduction are the only real edits done here.

To me, there's zero question that this has noticeably improved sensitivity. It's exciting to see where this project could go. I may consider adding cooling at some point.

Also, I left the CFA outline because I actually think it frames the image nicely. It's a cool look, to me.

• Target: M8 Lagoon Nebula
• 8x 120s lights
• 6x 120s darks
• 24x 1/2s flats, using my new cheap EL panel and a t-shirt

Edited July 30, 2019 by Noobulosity

[benzomobile]

There're   "Loctite  scolla tutto"  (italian distributed product)  to dissolve many adhesives included "Loctite Super Attack" cyanoacrylic glue.

I'm afraid it  wouldn't to perform  on the sensor epoxy layer ...

Also, another universal glue remover (for epoxidic one too) from Saratoga, called Via-Col is available here ...

Beppe

[benzomobile]

These are my last infos ...:

http://www.fabersurfacecare.com/it/it/epoxy-remover.html

https://uk.banggood.com/BGA-IC-Adhesive-Removing-Liquid-Glue-Epoxy-Remover-Cell-Phone-CPU-Chip-Cleaner-p-1128970.html?rmmds=search-left-hotproducts__1&cur_warehouse=CN

Beppe

Edited July 30, 2019 by benzomobile

[Noobulosity]

A solvent to dissolve CA glue is unlikely to work, but I'll take a look at the others you mentioned.  Can't hurt to have another option to try.

[benzomobile]

And ... another option here:

 

B

Edited July 30, 2019 by benzomobile
I apologize for Italian language ...

[Stub Mandrel]

Worrying thought...

If these product soften the epoxy, is it possible that it could peel off and take the gold contact wires with it?

[benzomobile]

We hope very strongly hard epoxy layer could be peeled off easy ...

About golden 'lanes',  I would prefer to keep them  well protected  🙂

Beppe

Edited July 31, 2019 by benzomobile

[benzomobile]

Protection! ... With what material? I believe the best choice is silicone because it is not attacked by the solvent for epoxy layer.

The silicone sealant must incorporate the gold wires together with the sensor outermost areas , where there are the delicate tracks and the microscopic electronic components that must absolutely not be damaged.

Beppe

Edited July 31, 2019 by benzomobile

[benzomobile]

On 30/07/2019 at 19:04, Noobulosity said:

A solvent to dissolve CA glue is unlikely to work, but I'll take a look at the others you mentioned.  Can't hurt to have another option to try.

Definitevely ... true!

Beppe

[Noobulosity]

I haven't tried any new solutions to removing the CFA layer, yet.  However, I did find the source of the light leak inside my camera.  It was the rear red LED that indicates memory card read/write.  I placed a few strips of black electrical tape over that area inside the rear panel of the camera, and now my 2-minute dark frame looks about as good as it can be.  I can still just barely make out the CFA border area, so maybe there's a really tiny light leak still in there somewhere.  But, it's a LOT better than it was.

Heavily-stretched 2-minute dark frame:

[Noobulosity]

I tried using the Klean Strip Green lacquer thinner again after noticing the label does mention it contains MEK. Unfortunately, even with a really long soak (about 30 hours or so) face-down in a puddle of the stuff, all I got was apparent damage or breakdown of the layer underneath the CFA where I'd already scraped the sensor clean.  I think that it's safe to say MEK isn't effective at even softening the CFA material.

My guess is methylene chloride is going to be our best option, and that's some nasty stuff. It's also been banned in the US for non-commercial use, so it's incredibly hard to find, aside from some little online shops here and there that haven't stopped selling the stuff.

Edited August 15, 2019 by Noobulosity

[freiform]

Hi,

 

maybe a bit late to the party, but any ideas how to remove the glass of the D3000's sensor? I can get no purchase anywhere. I suppose heating would be the way to go? Any recommendations on how hot is too hot? 😁

 

A friend gave it to me "for my astro stuff" because the camera would't find focus anymore, now I know why. I wonder how that happened. There was some loose plastic on the bottom shell, maybe to much pressure and the bottom sheared the cables off.

 

 

Sven

Edited September 4, 2019 by freiform