NEQ6 or CGEM or .. something else?

[matsey]

Hi all,

I have a few questions about the best mount to get for my intended setup. Think it would help first to give some background/extra details...

I've been back a week from Kelling (first star party, it really was incredible) and have a serious case of aperture fever

Having spent the last week fawning over scopes on the FLO website, I have realised these aren't going to magically turn up on my doorstep, more’s the pity So, I have just started up my own telescope savings fund, the aim being to get my "ideal" setup gradually over the next few years. My first purchase I’m hoping to make within the next six months, so would like to get some idea of what to get and what the exact cost will be.

I've currently got the 6SE (6" SCT on an alt-az mount) and what I'm looking for is a larger scope for visual use and another scope more suited to imaging. Plus a camera and any imaging accessories I'll need - I'll be starting initially with planetary imaging (I've already dabbled with webcam imaging) but would like to move on to imaging DSOs. So I'll also need a decent mount capable of holding either the larger scope (plus possibly camera for planetary imaging) or the imaging scope + camera + accessories.

I've more or less decided on the Celestron 925 XLT for the visual scope - I like the SCT design and the 925 is compact and portable enough without being too heavy. I'm 5'4" and female, so carry weight has to be a consideration unfortunately! I need to be able to set up the scope outside myself and I also need to consider room for storage, which will be relatively limited. The imaging scope I've not really thought about too much yet as that's a bit further down the line, but I'll definitely be coming back for advice on that one !

The order I'm thinking of buying everything is:

• mount
  
• visual scope -or- camera (most likely visual scope before camera, but not completely sure)
  
• imaging scope
  
• imaging accessories (whatever they may be!)
  

So, presuming that is a sensible order of purchase, first up is going to be the mount purchase, and I would really appreciate some advice to make sure I choose the right mount and know what it will cost. I have been looking at either the NEQ6 Pro SynScan GOTO or the Celestron CGEM GOTO mounts. It looks like both can hold a similar weight (18kg max, though I suspect I probably wouldn't want to go near the max really?), but the NEQ6 is slightly lighter as well as a couple of hundred pounds cheaper.

• So first of all, would I be correct in thinking that both the NEQ6 and the CGEM would handle my proposed setup, both visually and for imaging?
  
• Is the CGEM worth the extra money, again considering my proposed setup? I’m extremely unlikely to get a scope larger than the 925 further down the line due to the weight/size of the larger OTAs, but is there something else I’m missing about the CGEM which would make it worth the extra investment?
  
• Are there any other mounts I could/should consider? Eg, would the HEQ5 be suitable, or the CG-5GT? Though given what I’ve been reading on recent forum posts at least about the HEQ5, I suspect they won’t quite handle the imaging setup, but I thought I’d throw it out there just in case..
  

Really appreciate any and all advice you can all give. As I said, this is me working towards my ideal/long term setup, so I want to make sure I’m making the right decisions – if it means I need to save a little longer to get the right thing, then I’d rather do that than rush out and get something early and then having to upgrade because it’s not quite right. Though also if I can get something cheaper because it will handle it, no point wasting money either !

Thank you all !

Matsey

PS... I have ordered a copy of "Making Every Photon Count" from FLO, which should arrive shortly. Hopefully then I’ll start to get an idea of possible imaging scope, the accessories I’ll need and how I do it – at the moment imaging DSOs is a "want" but a "no idea how"

[onesmallstep]

Hi

Forgive me if I'm stating the obvious but have you checked out the Imaging forum in case similar threads have been posted there?

Just a thought

HTH!

[matsey]

I hadn't to be honest, because I don't just want the mount for imaging, but for visual as well, but thanks for the suggestion I did search a few posts but with so many set ups nothing quite matching what I'm planning, I didn't come up with a definite answer to my questions...

[r3i]

Hi Matsey,

Your plan looks good to me - definitely get the mount sorted first (bit like the foundations of a house).

The NEQ6 & CGEM should both be well capable of handling the C9.25 for visual and will give you lots of options for an imaging scope.

The big issue as you note is the weight - even without the counterweights or tripod, the NEQ6 is a heavy lump of metal. It is fairly compact and if you can 'hug it', it's not too bad. Try filling a bucket with 35lbs of weight in it and see what you think. If it is too much you have other options: the HEQ5 as you've already noted though you'll sacrifice load capacity; and there's the iOptron IEQ45 which has a comparable capacity to the NEQ6 but significantly lighter. See this other similar thread: http://stargazerslounge.com/topic/162966-eq6-weight-problem/

[matsey]

Thanks r3i, that's really helpful information.

Bit embarrassed to admit that although I'd thought a lot about the OTA's weight (I get a cold sweat at the thought of dropping that!) I had assumed I'd be ok with the mount, even though that is clearly going to be much heavier - I guess I'd kind of envisaged me shuffling everything along out the patio doors to the back garden. Having read that other thread though it sounds like I do need to give that some more thought and test out what I can comfortably lift before I make a purchase.

I've now had a quick look at the iEQ45 so thanks, I'd never heard of that mount before you mentioned it. It does looks quite expensive, even more so than the CGEM so might be a bit too much unless I can pick up one second hand. Though having said that it could be worth the extra if it means the difference between getting the mount outside or not being able to lift it out its packaging! Will definitely research that mount a bit more.

Weight issue aside then, does anyone have any views on NEQ6 vs CGEM? I appreciate a lot of that will be down to personal preference, so really I'm just trying to get a handle on whether the CGEM would give me something that the NEQ6 wouldn't?

Thanks again, really appreciate the help.

I'll also try to pop down the gym to check out the weights, get an idea of how much 35lbs really weighs - and perhaps while I'm there I should start working on that upper body strength

[r3i]

You do right to take your time over the purchase - it is often said that the best one to buy is the one that you'll use the most.

There's been a lot of threads about NEQ6 vs. CGEM. Here's some I posted in:

http://stargazerslou...ing-cgem-mount/

http://stargazerslou...86-neq6-v-cgem/

http://stargazerslou...5-neq6-or-cgem/

Happy reading.

[ollypenrice]

I know a couple of women imagers who find the NEQ6 too much to lug about. I'd certainly try handling it before you buy. It would easily carry the 9.25 and with good guiding (not dead easy even with the 6.3 reducer) you could do DS imaging with it, though it isn't the easiest way to start. Would the HEQ5 carry the 9.25 well enough? I dare say it would but I really don't know. Be warned that Celestron bundle enormous SCTs and small mounts but this is not proof that it is a good idea. It isn't, it is just cynical.

Olly

[matsey]

Thanks again r3i for the links, does seem like I'm joining the NEQ6/CGEM crowd! Again ignoring for the moment the issue of mount weight, of the two my initial thoughts are swaying towards the NEQ6 - they seem pretty much on a par for payload/tracking accuracy/functionality, so I'd rather put the price difference towards the next purchase on the list.

Olly - thanks also for your comments. I am concerned that NEQ6 will be too big for me to handle and I do need to be realistic. So other than the weights/bucket type of tests, I'll definitely make sure I check out an actual mount before making a final decision. The astro club I belong to has an imaging sub group, so I'll see if one of the guys there has a NEQ6 I could look at. Little bit reluctant to go down to an HEQ5 - from other forum posts, the consensus seems to be that it may struggle with the imaging set up. Funnily enough, just before you commented I was reading the review you published in Astronomy Now for the IEQ45 mount, which makes for a very useful read - the lighter weight without sacrificing too much on payload is certainly tempting. Much as I'd rather not pay an extra £500ish over the NEQ6 for a mount if I don't need to, it is at least an option if it comes to it. Lots to think about !!

And I'm inclined to agree about not taking "official" published payloads/bundle options at face value - I would definitely much rather hear other people's experiences of similar set ups, which is where this site is so great for that kind of feedback; it really is invaluable.

Matsey

[MartinB]

I have a CGEM and thought long and hard before getting an EQ6. Mechanically they are more or less the same mount from the same factory. The Celestron handset is a bit step up from Synta's offering. Also the Alt az adjustments are much better (or they were when I purchased mine). My CGEM can be nicely controlled from within planetarium software but the EQ6 can be pared up with Eqmod which is very powerful control software with lots of expertise on this forum.

For visual the CGEM would get my vote but for imaging EQmod may well swing things in favour of the EQ6. Either way you should be fine.

Weight wise they are both quite heavy. I can lift out the CGEM on it's tripod after removing counter weights but I don't think my wife would be able to manage. You would probably have to take out the tripod seperately. Should be ok as long as you don't have too far to walk

[Dunkster]

From the specs (at least), the NEQ6 mount is 3.5kg lighter than the CGEM, the iEQ45 is another 5kg or so lighter than the NEQ6. Excluding tripod in each case.

Going back to the OTAs... the 925 is about 3kg lighter but not much smaller physically than the C11, and that's a bear for wrestling! Both monsters compared to the C6 or 8 for sure... if you haven't already, get to see a 925 before you decide.

[matsey]

Thanks Martin and Dunkster for the additional comments, much appreciated.

I did manage to do some unscientific weight lifting experiments at home last night. Using the NEQ6/925 OTA combo, I believe gives me the following weights (at least according to the published specs, I am trusting they are accurate!):

Tripod: 7.5kg

Mount: 16Kg

Counterweights: 2 x 5Kg

OTA: 9Kg

I used a hard case with my current scope, which came in at 14Kg, plus the powerpack balanced on top, which gave me a total of 18Kg. I found I could comfortable lift both together, at least from the sofa height (I didn't try from floor to full standing, the size was a bit awkward) and I could walk around holding them for a reasonable length of time.

I think at least on the back of these results I *should* be just about OK. I haven't got too far to go (just inside lounge patio doors to outside on patio), and if I break the setup down to separate parts and carry them individually I think I'll be able to manage. Might end up taking me a bit longer to set up doing if that way but that may be the price I have to pay.

In any case, I appreciate these weren't quite "real world" tests. Without doubt this has solidified for me the fact that I need to see both the mount and the OTA in the flesh before I buy to be absolutely sure, but I am at least a little more confident that the setup I want is at least a possibility, and I may not have to compromise too much just because of the weight.

Now all I have to do is start saving my pennies

So thanks all again for the input and advice, it has been very helpful indeed.

Matsey

[chouet]

Is there any way for you to leave the mount set up permanently or for periods of time? Eliminating nightly lugging and polar aligning will vastly increase your viewing/imaging time.

You probably did this at Kelling, but it's really important to have a good look at setups before going to it. For every advocator of a sestup there's a detrator, so it's easy to make an expensive mistake.

I bought a used CPC925 which was great for visual, but (in my head anyway) kept the whole neighbourhood awake while slewing. I added a wedge and piggyback guide scope, but with very little success. Next, I stuck a SkyShed Pod in the garden (which I love) but still didn't get great success. I then opted for an NEQ6 (now running via EQMOD) . As long as you balance it well, it's a good setup. I'm currently using an FLT110 for deep sky and the deforked 925 for planetary.

If I was starting again, I'd start with the permanent (if possible) mount, and a nice apo.

Since you're considering much of the gear I have, you're welcome to have a look - we're just outside cambridge.

[matsey]

Hi choet, thanks very much for your comments.

Having a permanent (or at least semi permanent) setup outside is something I am definitely considering. Unfortunately, I don't have the room in my garden for a permanent obsy, but I have been looking at outside storage solutions, as I do have a little bit of space in the corner of my patio - something like a metal shed to at least store the tripod and mount maybe. And I've also seen somewhere a wheeled contraption that potentially could move the tripod and mount from storage out to it's observing position. Obviously there are issues of security / protection from the elements (and spiders!) with outside storage, but I think the idea has some potential. And if I could get the OTAs out in the storage area as well, that would also help with cool down times (and space in my lounge too!).

With the 925, I'm pretty sure it'll be just a visual scope and I will use something else for imaging, and will absolutely be going down the "try before you buy" route - I've already managed to arrange with someone from my astro society to have a look at their NEQ6 which will be really helpful. Thanks for the offer with viewing the 925, etc, I'm probably about a year away from that purchase still, so may get back to you on that one nearer the time ! I'm also going to SGL8, so I'm sure I'll be drooling over even more kit then just like at Kelling Those star parties really are deceptively expensive... £30ish for the pitch, few quid for the food, plus a few thousand for everything you want to buy when you get home

And I completely know what you mean about waking up the neighbours with the slewing noise - if you are able to go back through my post history to just over a year ago, you'll see I had a similar problem with my 6SE mount with the neighbours actually thinking I was drilling at midnight . I was incredibly lucky though, they were so understanding and were at pains to make sure I didn't stop using my scope and they'd just close their window if they needed to - so lovely of them. I still try to do my bit though and slew on a slower/quieter speed until I'm roughly in the right area then switch to the goto for the final approach. But still... noise is one more consideration to add to the list !

Thanks again,

Matsey

[JB80]

Just a thought about the weight, you could always just consider getting the mounting with no tripod and attach it to one of these......

http://www.firstlightoptics.com/skywatcher-mounts/skywatcher-pillar-mount-support-for-heq5-eq6-series-mounts.html

Not sure how stable they are but it would make it easy just to roll it out.