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Astro-Physics Mach1GTO vs 10Micron GM1000HPS


jjongmans

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I'm looking for a new mount to replace my EQ6. I already did a lot of research and narrowed my scope to the Astro-Physics Mach1GTO and 10Micron GM1000HPS.

Currently I use a 10" newtonian with a focal length of 1357mm and a weight of 16kg. I'll use this telescope for imaging on the new mount. I'll replace this telescope in the near future with a 10" carbon RC with a focal length of 2000mm and a weight of 15kg.

I'm automating my setup, so a good interface with a PC is required (Maxim DL, CCD Commander, MaxPoint, etc).

The pro's and con's of the mounts

Astro-Physics

+ Proven quality

+ Good remote control - ascom driver

- Backlash

- Periodic Error

10Micron

+ High res encoder RA

- Italian electronics

- Ascom driver available?

- No reviews so far?

Who can advise me in this decision?

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Sorry to confuse but I would put the Mesu Mount 200 on the list. I have seen bad behaviour from AP and 10 Micron (and Takahashi) here so I don't think any mounts are infallible.

Do you consider Italian electrics to be a positive or a negative? I know what I think on that one!!!

Olly

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I looked at the Mesu and visited Lucas. I also know Yves and his opinion. But the Mesu can't be used in an automated setup, because there isn't a well developed ascom driver for the Servocat controller. The Servocat is used for dobson platforms and not for GEMs. So I already decided I'm not going to use the Argo Navis / Servocat.

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Jeffrey lives 10 meters from the mount ...

The one thing he needs to do is to sync on one star, the rest can be automated.

Just for this one feature he will now choose an old design with play and faster PE so harder to guide out ...

To each it's own I guess ...

And if you need to pick one of the 2 go for the AP ... but that you already new ... ;-)

My list today is pretty simple:

- Mesu

- Gemini, the friction based model

- Avalon

- ASA direct drive

Mechanical superior to the old school drive mechanics ...

Yves

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I'm looking for a new mount to replace my EQ6. I already did a lot of research and narrowed my scope to the Astro-Physics Mach1GTO and 10Micron GM1000HPS.
It seems that you're looking for a mount in the 30+kg payload range and a cost of ~ 7-8,000 euro.

I can't offer any suggestions, but I'd be interested to hear your views on the "other" friction mount the G53F + Pulsar2 controller.

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It's a matter of principle; a mount costing around 7k euro and not able to park for instance, some advanced mount that is... No Mesu for me, period. ;)

I looked into the G53F, but I spoke to several people and they mentioned the bad support from Gemini and the mediocre Pulsar controller. Maybe everything is solved now, but I'm not finding out.

I can't find anything about the ASA, why is nobody buying this mount?

AP is very popular en with very good reviews and results, but old-fashioned, I know that.

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I can't find anything about the ASA, why is nobody buying this mount?
The ASA DDM60 and DDM85 do have their own following. There's a Yahoo! group for them and the owners do get some impressive results. I have to say the capabilities of the mount: long, unguided images and the total lack of fuss are something I find very tempting. Although there are a few people who seem to have some trouble with the mounts' control software.
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The asa had their share of software issues in the beginning but that seems to be solved and some of the best imagers out there are using it,

Karel Teuwen is using one I think, he takes all his images unguided ...

Anyway Jeffrey I find it just incredible that for someone literally standing next to his mount, cannot not perform a 1 minute sync or park and do the rest completely remote.

And pass up on superior mechanics, which is by far the most important item ... one example I forgot to mention is the stifness of the setup which results in a system of 2.4 meters taking pictures in moderate wind conditions ... with 30 Kg of load ...

I do realize you are a software engineer, but for a mount it is 95% mechanics that take a good picture ...

On the other hand I do realise that new technology like friction drive has to prove it's robustness over a longer period ... could very well be that dust kills it ... but so would dust kill a traditional geared system as well ...

In the end you will be happy with whatever +7K mount you buy, I would just go for the cheaper better mount and use the extra money on a better telescope ;-)

Yves

PS: Since more then 6 month's we lost zero subs due to guiding or mount issue, we lost some in the beginning due to telescope shifting in it's rings ...

that's another proof for me that zero backlash systems are better ...

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Anyway Jeffrey I find it just incredible that for someone literally standing next to his mount, cannot not perform a 1 minute sync or park and do the rest completely remote.

The reason I want an automated setup, is because I want to automate my setup... :) That means I'm not always standing next to my mount, why would I care to automate my setup if I was standing next to it?? I'm not always around when starting and ending a imaging session. Every time I mention that I want a mount with a good ascom driver, you are telling me that I don't need that, well.. I do, maybe not right now, but I will in the near future. So once again, no Mesu for me. :)

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I was not pointing to the mesu in specific ... the points I made are indeed based on the mesu but I'm sure they apply to the

list mentioned above ...

But you have already decided, so go on and order the AP and be happy it's a good mount, and no Italian electronics :smiley:

Oh and don't forget to automate your shed :evil:

Yves

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I can find enough reviews of the Mach1GTO, but can someone help me with a review of the:

- Gemini G53F

- 10Micron GM1000HPS

- ASA DDM60

Tricky question - the lack of documented (independent) user experiences is what's holding me back, too. I was rather hoping you'd buy one from that list and let us know how good / bad it was. :wink: There is a review of the DDM85 on CN (the DDM60's big brother - in the Paramount MX class: both for price and payload, but "new technology" ). The feature that attracts me the most is its software - which is common to both mounts, that gives it the ability to account for mirror flop in a series of long unguided images.
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Fact of the matter is those 3 are relative young compared to the AP mount ...

You can ask feedback from Karel, http://www.karelteuwen.be ...

For the 10micron you can ask spaceman ... though I think you need to wait a few month's ...

Most of the imagers buying these kind of mounts are not the kind that spent time on writing reviews.

So it will always be a small sample compared to the AP ...

If I win the lotto I'll be happy to try them for you :tongue:

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Pick the ASA ...

it's superior in every way ... it had a chance to mature you found a very positive review ...

and I heard positive feedback (after initial software issues, but it was just being released at that time), it's a european company so if it needs service you can even go on vacation to the factory :grin:

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I don't feel comfortable with spending 8k euros and the only info I've got is a sales website from the selling company... I prefer some objective results from users. Maybe I should pick one blindfolded :)

Yes, that's the big problem. I reckon that the americans write most of the reviews and not many of they buy "european" equipment. Some do, but not very many. Maybe other people don't feel the need to "tell the world" or maybe they write in their native language and my browser is only picking up the ones written in english.

The other place to look is on Youtube. Although I hate trying to get factual information from it (people are usually worse at making videos than they are at writing) as you can't skim the video like you can a written page - you have to watch every second in case you miss something. Sometimes you can get a good idea of the sorts of equipment a mount will carry.

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I am considering a 100HPS for my balcony. I already have a GM2000HPS ultra portable. The 2000 is a formidable mount, although it has not been entirely without glitches. The glitches are in software and are about to be resolved and not serious enough to disturb operation. The cool thing about the 10Micron mounts is the pointing and - hear this - tracking models. Once you have your polar alignment straight and do a star alignment with some refinement stars, you end up with not only a pointing model but also a tracking model. So, the mount tracks in both Ra and Dec according to the model.

The procedures for balancing and polar alignment are superb. The latter is a breeze; three stars align first, the enter polar align, which just tells you how much to screw on the settings screws and also lets you center a star is that is your preference. Iterate that two or three times and you have virtually perfect polar alignment without the need for a polar scope.

The mechanics are very good with belt drive and the GM2000 is sturdy as heck. The encoders enable you to fiddle with the mount any way you want with clutches loose and it always knows where it is. Track for a while, shoot a few frames, change your camera and run the balance routine. After that you do not need to re-align at all.

I have done six minute unguided subs at 1540mm FL with just three alignment stars, and that is from a balcony with almost half the sky obstructed so alignment is not very good. Once it gets properly dark again and I set it up I expect at least 15 minute subs if I spend some time on alignment - something I didn't do properly last spring before the light nights arrived.

If I can get a decent deal for a 1000HPS I will probably buy it. It should have the same software.

/per

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I was also torn about the decision of Mach-1 or the GM1000. In the end, after doing a lot of research and talking to some folks on this forum that had the Mach-1, I went for "evidence" and plumped for it. The GM1000 sounds great, but as you point put, no reviews or duration of time yet either to see how it fares. It should be an excellent mount, and no doubt over the next 6-12 months we'll know more. I just didn't want to lose another 12 months imaging time waiting for the outcome so went for the more proven option,

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Sounds a lot like the DDM60; also pointing and tracking models, balancing and polar alignment routines. 100 corrections per second, so even wind gusts can be corrected... I don't see the need for the 'pro' version; only cable management and a active USB hub? If the mount can compensate wind gusts, it probably also can compensate the dangling cables :) I have to see it to believe it.

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So both mounts are from a tracking and modelling point pretty close,

but direct drive will ensure way better operation ... no backlash ... no wear on gears ... very robust ...

ASA wins, hands down ... no competition for the micron.

The only thing that the Micron has going for me is that you can run it without a computer ...

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